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As far as Truro, possibly St Austell? Not sure there would be much demand beyond there, even if there was to Truro? What are the late night attractions in Penzance that the people in West Cornwall want to get back from?
As far as Truro, possibly St Austell? Not sure there would be much demand beyond there, even if there was to Truro? What are the late night attractions in Penzance that the people in West Cornwall want to get back from?
I thought that early finish on Saturday could partiallly be justified if the buses run substantially later - but (as well as being much slower) they don't: the last no 14 from Penzance that runs through (eventually) to Truro leaves at 21:45 (there is one later as far as Camborne)
I never know whether these early finishes reflect lack of customer demand or engineering requirements being prioritized: the final train from Birmingham to Oxford on a Saturday being at 21:03 is one I find particularly surprising (and frustrating)
In reality the Night Riviera can be used for local journeys. The guards never care if people use it for local Cornwall journeys and alight at the pick up only stops. I have done this four times in recent years. What they need to do is simply officially remove the pick up only restrictions and advertise the Night Riviera as available for local Cornwall journeys. That would be the simplest and cheapest option for providing an official later journey.
In reality the Night Riviera can be used for local journeys. The guards never care if people use it for local Cornwall journeys and alight at the pick up only stops
In reality the Night Riviera can be used for local journeys. The guards never care if people use it for local Cornwall journeys and alight at the pick up only stops. I have done this four times in recent years. What they need to do is simply officially remove the pick up only restrictions and advertise the Night Riviera as available for local Cornwall journeys. That would be the simplest and cheapest option for providing an official later journey.
I also believe that actual demand for late night travel is extremely limited on this axis, from my experiences on and waiting for the Riviera services out of Cornwall.
The seats in the sleeper are meant to be pre booked. There has been issues in the past with anti-social behaviour from passengers making local journeys, such as rowdyness or hiding in sleeping berths to outright fare evasion and hostility. If you’re in a berth would you want this?
Also being the last publicly operated slam door train in the country also introduces many risks that GWR take extra steps to prevent. Pick up only being one of them.
The seats in the sleeper are meant to be pre booked. There has been issues in the past with anti-social behaviour from passengers making local journeys, such as rowdyness or hiding in sleeping berths to outright fare evasion and hostility. If you’re in a berth would you want this?
Also being the last publicly operated slam door train in the country also introduces many risks that GWR take extra steps to prevent. Pick up only being one of them.
I’m sure there are occasional issues, but the increased staffing levels compared to a regular ‘last local train’ pretty much anywhere else in the country somewhat offset these issues and make them more manageable.
I’m sure there are occasional issues, but the increased staffing levels compared to a regular ‘last local train’ pretty much anywhere else in the country somewhat offset these issues and make them more manageable.
It didn’t help when XC withdrew their late stopper that followed the sleeper. TBH I’ve not seen much local traffic on the up sleeper for a while. It remains a special train and should IMO not become a local stopper.
The down beds became set down only for similar reasons.
However, I do agree there should be a later stopping service from PZ to Plymouth, just not the sleeper.
Yes, there used to be a 22.10 following the sleeper back to Plymouth. Back in the '90s It used to be much worst with the last eastbound service (apart from the sleeper) being around 20.05 but only to Par! The last service to Plymouth was around 1735!
As far as Truro, possibly St Austell? Not sure there would be much demand beyond there, even if there was to Truro? What are the late night attractions in Penzance that the people in West Cornwall want to get back from?
Plymouth seems to be the main centre, so I'd have thought there, although Truro/St Austell would still work for a lot of local journeys.
23:00 isn't "late night" for anyone, except perhaps for residents of care homes and monasteries (although to be fair, 22:00 would be fine for my needs).
In reality the Night Riviera can be used for local journeys. The guards never care if people use it for local Cornwall journeys and alight at the pick up only stops. I have done this four times in recent years. What they need to do is simply officially remove the pick up only restrictions and advertise the Night Riviera as available for local Cornwall journeys. That would be the simplest and cheapest option for providing an official later journey.
The seats in the sleeper are meant to be pre booked. There has been issues in the past with anti-social behaviour from passengers making local journeys, such as rowdyness or hiding in sleeping berths to outright fare evasion and hostility. If you’re in a berth would you want this?
Also being the last publicly operated slam door train in the country also introduces many risks that GWR take extra steps to prevent. Pick up only being one of them.
It didn’t help when XC withdrew their late stopper that followed the sleeper. TBH I’ve not seen much local traffic on the up sleeper for a while. It remains a special train and should IMO not become a local stopper.
The down beds became set down only for similar reasons.
However, I do agree there should be a later stopping service from PZ to Plymouth, just not the sleeper.
Yes, there used to be a 22.10 following the sleeper back to Plymouth. Back in the '90s It used to be much worst with the last eastbound service (apart from the sleeper) being around 20.05 but only to Par! The last service to Plymouth was around 1735!
Ah, so it looks like one arm of the railway not noticing what the other's doing. There should have been some liason between the parties to ensure that the 22:00 service was continued by someone at least.
If GW are squeamish about having normals on the sleeper, the answer is to have a local service after it.
Riviera seats are not pre booked. Although you can it's not compulsory.
Remember the limited access for local trips was part of the slam door rules put in by Dft.
One reason for so many extra seats put in during refurbishment was because local travel had increased so much but then the CDL rules came in making the extra capacity pointless and more comfortable seating could have been uses.
Riviera seats are not pre booked. Although you can it's not compulsory.
Remember the limited access for local trips was part of the slam door rules put in by Dft.
One reason for so many extra seats put in during refurbishment was because local travel had increased so much but then the CDL rules came in making the extra capacity pointless and more comfortable seating could have been uses.
The Engineering Access Statement might be part of it:
For instance, Roskear to St Erth has possession opportunities starting from 2235 on Midweek nights, Roskear to Truro must be clear of trains in the WTT from 2305.
This would still allow for a last train about 20-30 minutes after the sleeper departs and still be clear of the Section 4 opportunities (the Up Sleeper departs Truro at 2229).
My experience of Cornwall is in the season, locals are much more likely to be out and about early morning, before things get crowded, than late at night
I also believe that actual demand for late night travel is extremely limited on this axis, from my experiences on and waiting for the Riviera services out of Cornwall.
Who knows what the demand is as there are no services available…?
Same on the North Wales Coast line, last train from Holyhead is 2031, Bangor 2104. Llandudno 2151
Hopeless for visiting the theatres in Bangor, Llandudno, Colwyn Bay or Rhyl…
Who knows what the demand is as there are no services available…?
Same on the North Wales Coast line, last train from Holyhead is 2031, Bangor 2104. Llandudno 2151
Hopeless for visiting the theatres in Bangor, Llandudno, Colwyn Bay or Rhyl…
Well, as a starting point you can look at whether people are making those journeys by other modes. Do the roads of Cornwall see a spike in travel that might justify a stopper from Penzance to Plymouth at 2200?
The Engineering Access Statement might be part of it:
For instance, Roskear to St Erth has possession opportunities starting from 2235 on Midweek nights, Roskear to Truro must be clear of trains in the WTT from 2305.
This would still allow for a last train about 20-30 minutes after the sleeper departs and still be clear of the Section 4 opportunities (the Up Sleeper departs Truro at 2229).
My experience of Cornwall is in the season, locals are much more likely to be out and about early morning, before things get crowded, than late at night
Well, as a starting point you can look at whether people are making those journeys by other modes. Do the roads of Cornwall see a spike in travel that might justify a stopper from Penzance to Plymouth at 2200?
My reading of the comment was “before things get crowded” (in the middle of the morning) - in other words, get things done while the emmets are still in bed.
My reading of the comment was “before things get crowded” (in the middle of the morning) - in other words, get things done while the emmets are still in bed.
I never know whether these early finishes reflect lack of customer demand or engineering requirements being prioritized: the final train from Birmingham to Oxford on a Saturday being at 21:03 is one I find particularly surprising (and frustrating)
Have been told whenever I've asked in the past that this is because Saturday nights are the only time they can do extended engineering work on the Leamington-Banbury-Oxford axis, due to it being required for freight the rest of the week.
Although Chiltern run a 2220ish from Moor St as far as Banbury on a Saturday night, it's still a lot earlier than the 2340ish of weeknights, and often means I'm forced to book a hotel in Birmingham after an event when I'd really just want to get a late train home!
Have been told whenever I've asked in the past that this is because Saturday nights are the only time they can do extended engineering work on the Leamington-Banbury-Oxford axis, due to it being required for freight the rest of the week.
Although Chiltern run a 2220ish from Moor St as far as Banbury on a Saturday night, it's still a lot earlier than the 2340ish of weeknights, and often means I'm forced to book a hotel in Birmingham after an event when I'd really just want to get a late train home!
That one sounds like a case for a permanently timetable coach service - even if it had to be reservation compulsory to manage numbers. Other countries do precisely that; we don’t seem to be able to.
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