Conwy Valley service patterns

[AlastairFraser]

And the 230 is only coming to the Conwy Valley until the Borderlands line goes half-hourly. In the long term it's planned to be operated by the same Civity stock as the other services along the coast.

In other words, if you want to keep 230s on the Conwy Valley, you'd need to order more of them.

It seems like the passenger numbers on the line don't justify more than 2 sets for a Conwy Valley Line and a Llandudno Shuttle alone, so maybe a couple extra could be ordered to serve a reopened Anglesey Central Railway + Gobowen-Welshpool line (which are both being looked into for reopening) and it wouldn't hurt to have a few extra units to cover other unit failures and capacity for big events.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It seems like the passenger numbers on the line don't justify more than 2 sets for a Conwy Valley Line and a Llandudno Shuttle alone, so maybe a couple extra could be ordered to serve a reopened Anglesey Central Railway + Gobowen-Welshpool line (which are both being looked into for reopening) and it wouldn't hurt to have a few extra units to cover other unit failures and capacity for big events.

A dedicated design of 3-car 230 for the branch would work well, perhaps with some of the features (e.g. a lot of cycle spaces) as the Scottish 153s. While the branch is never going to be a cash cow, I think there are many things that could be done to it which would, with a bit of effort and marketing, make it a bit less of a basket case at least.

Does it have a Community Rail Partnership or similar? Something like that would be a good start.

 

[krus_aragon]

Does it have a Community Rail Partnership or similar? Something like that would be a good start.

Yes, it does. Their website is here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, it does. Their website is here.

Cheers. I wonder would they be amenable to more tourist-style marketing? The line is very much a "local line for local people" at the moment (give or take day tripping hikers who already know about it) - I think there is a lot of marketing that could be done that isn't, more like the S&C (though admittedly the latter is still riding on the fame BR gave it by attempting unsuccessfully to close it - a bit like the old adage that the best thing that could possibly happen to a record is the BBC banning it, as everyone then buys it to see why it's banned[1]).

Of course a two-hourly clockface service would help that marketing massively as it could then interface better with the likes of the Snowdon Sherpa bus. That creates opportunities for something like a "Climb Snowdon Day Ranger" which could include train travel and the bus to Pen Y Pass - or potentially even a variant for the less outdoors-inclined that might include train to Betws, bus to Llanberis and Snowdon Mountain Railway return trip just like I can buy a through ticket to Jungfraujoch[2] from any TVM in Switzerland, provided I have taken the second mortgage out in advance. At present just about the only non-enthusiast tourist marketing of the line involves through travel on the Ffestiniog, and while that's great it isn't exactly the line's full potential.

[1] Thanks to Jasper Carrott (I think).
[2] Best way to buy one. If you wait until you get there, sometimes they stop selling tickets when it gets busy, there's no way for them to do that to the TVMs and you don't need a boarding card or similar. So buy it elsewhere and you guarantee you can go up that day.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Cheers. I wonder would they be amenable to more tourist-style marketing? The line is very much a "local line for local people" at the moment (give or take day tripping hikers who already know about it) - I think there is a lot of marketing that could be done that isn't, more like the S&C (though admittedly the latter is still riding on the fame BR gave it by attempting unsuccessfully to close it - a bit like the old adage that the best thing that could possibly happen to a record is the BBC banning it, as everyone then buys it to see why it's banned[1]).

Of course a two-hourly clockface service would help that marketing massively as it could then interface better with the likes of the Snowdon Sherpa bus. That creates opportunities for something like a "Climb Snowdon Day Ranger" which could include train travel and the bus to Pen Y Pass - or potentially even a variant for the less outdoors-inclined that might include train to Betws, bus to Llanberis and Snowdon Mountain Railway return trip just like I can buy a through ticket to Jungfraujoch[2] from any TVM in Switzerland, provided I have taken the second mortgage out in advance. At present just about the only non-enthusiast tourist marketing of the line involves through travel on the Ffestiniog, and while that's great it isn't exactly the line's full potential.

[1] Thanks to Jasper Carrott (I think).
[2] Best way to buy one. If you wait until you get there, sometimes they stop selling tickets when it gets busy, there's no way for them to do that to the TVMs and you don't need a boarding card or similar. So buy it elsewhere and you guarantee you can go up that day.

I agree, though I wonder if there are any through tickets for the Conwy Valley Line/Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland? If there's not, there definitely should be and a new timetable introduced to meet the Ffestiniog trains in Blaenau. Maybe they could restrict cars in Snowdonia NP and force people to jump off at a Park and Ride somewhere along the Conwy Valley Line?

 

[30907]

I agree, though I wonder if there are any through tickets for the Conwy Valley Line/Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland? If there's not, there definitely should be and a new timetable introduced to meet the Ffestiniog trains in Blaenau.

Tickets - the Festiniog Round Robin and North Wales Rover for a start, but there's nothing more local.
Timetable - agreed, though the FR has for years aimed to provide connections and their timetable is rather complex these days, I think because of fitting in with the WHR.

Of course a two-hourly clockface service would help that marketing massively as it could then interface better with the likes of the Snowdon Sherpa bus.

Agreed - a little detail, though, the Sherpa has a 30-minute pause in the middle of the day, either for meal breaks or to fit with school times.
I don't think the line has potential for school traffic, unfortunately, but you would probably still need the half-hour "hiccup"

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed - a little detail, though, the Sherpa has a 30-minute pause in the middle of the day, either for meal breaks or to fit with school times.
I don't think the line has potential for school traffic, unfortunately, but you would probably still need the half-hour "hiccup"

I think that could be worked out. If the line brought the Sherpa more traffic, a different shift pattern may be affordable.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Tickets - the Festiniog Round Robin and North Wales Rover for a start, but there's nothing more local.
Timetable - agreed, though the FR has for years aimed to provide connections and their timetable is rather complex these days, I think because of fitting in with the WHR.



Agreed - a little detail, though, the Sherpa has a 30-minute pause in the middle of the day, either for meal breaks or to fit with school times.
I don't think the line has potential for school traffic, unfortunately, but you would probably still need the half-hour "hiccup"

The Festiniog Round Robin seems like a good idea, maybe it could do with a marketing campaign? North Wales Rover is a bit much to do in 1 day but it seems more like what I was looking for. But, the perfect combination would be a Ffestiniog-WHR-Conwy Valley Rover priced about £20, so you are given more time to explore. On the timetable, if the FR tries to provide connections, why can't TfW or NR ultimately help them out and make an effort to connect with a 2-hourly clockface service for a trial period with a marketing campaign and see how the services stack up financially.

 

[krus_aragon]

The Festiniog Round Robin seems like a good idea, maybe it could do with a marketing campaign? North Wales Rover is a bit much to do in 1 day but it seems more like what I was looking for. But, the perfect combination would be a Ffestiniog-WHR-Conwy Valley Rover priced about £20, so you are given more time to explore. On the timetable, if the FR tries to provide connections, why can't TfW or NR ultimately help them out and make an effort to connect with a 2-hourly clockface service for a trial period with a marketing campaign and see how the services stack up financially.

The large number of holidaymakers (count the hotels) in Llandudno would be an obvious target for such a campaign, if through trains to Llandudno are kept.

 

[30907]

The Festiniog Round Robin seems like a good idea, maybe it could do with a marketing campaign? North Wales Rover is a bit much to do in 1 day but it seems more like what I was looking for. But, the perfect combination would be a Ffestiniog-WHR-Conwy Valley Rover priced about £20, so you are given more time to explore. On the timetable, if the FR tries to provide connections, why can't TfW or NR ultimately help them out and make an effort to connect with a 2-hourly clockface service for a trial period with a marketing campaign and see how the services stack up financially.

I agree the Conwy Valley should ideally be 2-hourly, but the Festiniog can't easily do that because of where the loops are. At its peak it ran every 50 minutes, it now runs an irregular timetable. The key connections to allow a day trip from Llandudno by train work, and that's probably what matters to most potential customers.
A 2-zone NW Rover allows half fare on the NG railways, and that works out at about £32.30 one-way (if I read the fare table right), and that seems very good value to me considering the level of NG fares.