Convert EMU's to Trailer Carriages ?

[yorksrob]

Given the shortage and late delivery of various DMU classes in various places, would their be any milage in converting a couple of EMU's to hauled Trailer unit's ?

They could be wired to work in push-pull formation with some types of loco and is needs be, a battery or diesel generator could be installed for lights and power.

This could then be hired out around the network wherever there's a DMU shortage, e.g. GOBLIN or Northern.

 

[edwin_m]

This was tried out with loco-hauled stock in the mid-2000s by Fragonset/Merlin, but they didn't manage to make it viable.

 

[43096]

Given the shortage and late delivery of various DMU classes in various places, would their be any milage in converting a couple of EMU's to hauled Trailer unit's ?

They could be wired to work in push-pull formation with some types of loco and is needs be, a battery or diesel generator could be installed for lights and power.

This could then be hired out around the network wherever there's a DMU shortage, e.g. GOBLIN or Northern.

Given that the removed trailer cars from the 321 to 320 conversions for ScotRail have gone for scrap, clearly there is no appetite or demand for it. So, no mileage in it whatsoever.

 

[yorksrob]

This was tried out with loco-hauled stock in the mid-2000s by Fragonset/Merlin, but they didn't manage to make it viable.

Thanks, that's interesting. My only knowledge of anything similar was of the SR TC's from the 60's, so I was curious as to whether a modern equivalent was viable.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Thanks, that's interesting. My only knowledge of anything similar was of the SR TC's from the 60's, so I was curious as to whether a modern equivalent was viable.

I think that was the other way round - locomotive hauled stock being strung together into MU format? Some were even turned into powered units - the REPs contained some former locomotive hauled stock.

 

[yorksrob]

This was tried out with loco-hauled stock in the mid-2000s by Fragonset/Merlin, but they didn't manage to make it viable.

I never knew that !

 

[yorksrob]

Given that the removed trailer cars from the 321 to 320 conversions for ScotRail have gone for scrap, clearly there is no appetite or demand for it. So, no mileage in it whatsoever.

Yet we still have periodical DMU shortages.

 

[yorksrob]

I think that was the other way round - locomotive hauled stock being strung together into MU format? Some were even turned into powered units - the REPs contained some former locomotive hauled stock.

Yes, only the two power cars of the REP's were built new.

I was thinking of the way that the TC's could work in multiple with a loco.

 

[edwin_m]

I never knew that !

Fragonset (who later became FM Rail) used 31s in top and tail mode (but I think with a MU cable through the coaches so both engines were powering) on the Marston Vale line, Bristol-Weymouth and probably elsewhere too in the mid-2000s. Something similar happened on the Settle and Carlisle but I don't remember who provided it. More recently there has been the DRS stock on the Cumbrian Coast. So there is enough workable loco-hauled stock around for this to be done where necessary without having to go to the trouble of converting MU stock - but the ROG locos with built-in couplers might be able to operate dead MUs in passenger service if there was a need to.

 

[JonathanH]

None of that loco-hauled rolling stock can be used on regular timetabled services after 31 December 2019.

However, there are enough units (albeit with some services shorter formed than might be desired) to operate services from 1 January 2020 such that the loco-hauled option isn't needed.

 

[big all]

Yes, only the two power cars of the REP's were built new.

I was thinking of the way that the TC's could work in multiple with a loco.

its the other way round really
southern used a 27way jumper[51/57/63stock] so a high level 27way jumper on an emu a converted crompton 71/73/74 electric/ed/loco and even demu 1111 with a quick conversion
the locos also had low level blue star something like 42way loco control jumpers and air control pipes to rev the trailing engines

now the low level jumper could just have a dummy cable strung from top to tail off say 6 coaches but the air pipe is a big problem as engine control speed instead off being fairly instant can take 10- 20 times as long to respond because the volume off air

 

[yorksrob]

Fragonset (who later became FM Rail) used 31s in top and tail mode (but I think with a MU cable through the coaches so both engines were powering) on the Marston Vale line, Bristol-Weymouth and probably elsewhere too in the mid-2000s. Something similar happened on the Settle and Carlisle but I don't remember who provided it. More recently there has been the DRS stock on the Cumbrian Coast. So there is enough workable loco-hauled stock around for this to be done where necessary without having to go to the trouble of converting MU stock - but the ROG locos with built-in couplers might be able to operate dead MUs in passenger service if there was a need to.

None of that loco-hauled rolling stock can be used on regular timetabled services after 31 December 2019.

However, there are enough units (albeit with some services shorter formed than might be desired) to operate services from 1 January 2020 such that the loco-hauled option isn't needed.

Yes, I'm a fan of mk2 stock, however a hauled 319 would get around the door issue.

The internal layout might be more suited to something like the GOBLIN as well.

 

[yorksrob]

its the other way round really
southern used a 27way jumper[51/57/63stock] so a high level 27way jumper on an emu a converted crompton 71/73/74 electric/ed/loco and even demu 1111 with a quick conversion
the locos also had low level blue star something like 42way loco control jumpers and air control pipes to rev the trailing engines

now the low level jumper could just have a dummy cable strung from top to tail off say 6 coaches but the air pipe is a big problem as engine control speed instead off being fairly instant can take 10- 20 times as long to respond because the volume off air

Presumably you'd only need the 42 way jumper if the train was being top and tailed ?

 

[big all]

or you would need to convert dt or the loco to a compatible operating system
i suspect most modern locos can work like the converted 47/7 to work by something simple like the lighting control cable that only has 2 or perhaps 3wires

 

[yorksrob]

or you would need to convert dt or the loco to a compatible operating system
i suspect most modern locos can work like the converted 47/7 to work by something simple like the lighting control cable that only has 2 or perhaps 3wires

I was thinking that the driving caps on the EMU could be used/converted for push-pull operation.

Now I think of it, something similar was done with those EMU's converted to mail vans (currently at Hellifield).

 

[edwin_m]

I was thinking that the driving caps on the EMU could be used/converted for push-pull operation.

Now I think of it, something similar was done with those EMU's converted to mail vans (currently at Hellifield).

The "power" control in the mail vans (Propelling Control Vehicles) only worked a set of lights in the cab of the loco telling the driver what to do. The former WCML DVTs were converted from TDM over lighting cables to use the AAR system that works with class 66 and all more recent locos, so it's likely to be possible for an EMU cab.

 

[LUYMun]

Not sure if this is said already, but how about vice-versa, converting DMUs to battery or electric MUs? Currently there's a shortage of EMUs due to the late-running Class 710 being made, so converting DMUs would prove viable?

 

[big all]

Not sure if this is said already, but how about vice-versa, converting DMUs to battery or electric MUs? Currently there's a shortage of EMUs due to the late-running Class 710 being made, so converting DMUs would prove viable?

overly complicated really
electric to deisel add an engine and generator
other way round remove all transmission and fit electric motors iff possible if not new bogies required