Conversions & restrictions/clearances

[MidnightFlyer]

Two threads in one, lovely.

1) Apart from 170 -> 171 (changing the coupler to make them attachable to Southern Region EMUs?) and 158 -> 159 (???), have there been anymore modern rolling stock conversions? I also know that VT/ATW 57s are converted 47s (is that correct?), are there anymore examples of this in locos?

2) I do know that 142s are not permitted Dasiyfield Jn (Blackburn)-Clitheroe, nor are 158s from Gannow Jn (Rose Grove)-Colne, due to the clearances of the stock on the respective routes. Aside from the famous Hastings EMUs in the past, does this exist anywhere else currrenly?

Thanks

 

[Mvann]

Some of the southern region electric locos (class 70s) were converted to electro diesels (class 71s?).

 

[tbtc]

Two threads in one, lovely.

1) Apart from 170 -> 171 (changing the coupler to make them attachable to Southern Region EMUs?) and 158 -> 159 (???), have there been anymore modern rolling stock conversions?

155s to 153s? Proposals about 322s becoming 321/3s (IIRC), though this hasn't happened yet.

As for route clearances, this is a tricky subject because you get onto the "Pacers aren't cleared for Third Rail" examples (I know this isn't the case...) and various other urban legends. I think that 142s aren't allowed to Buxton either though, or south of Chesterfield on the MML. Similarly because of the coach length 158s aren't cleared on some routes in western Scotland (Stranraer/ Kilmarnock/Glasgow and Glasgow - Oban/Mallaig)

 

[MCR247]

155s to 153s? Proposals about 322s becoming 321/3s (IIRC), though this hasn't happened yet.

As for route clearances, this is a tricky subject because you get onto the "Pacers aren't cleared for Third Rail" examples (I know this isn't the case...) and various other urban legends. I think that 142s aren't allowed to Buxton either though, or south of Chesterfield on the MML. Similarly because of the coach length 158s aren't cleared on some routes in western Scotland (Stranraer/ Kilmarnock/Glasgow and Glasgow - Oban/Mallaig)

Pacers in general aren't allowed south Chesterfield as Northern found out on a driver training run

 

[tbtc]

Pacers in general aren't allowed south Chesterfield as Northern found out on a driver training run

Any reason why not (and how far north they could run from Bristol/Cardiff)? Pacers are pretty short (a two coach Pacer is only going to be slightly longer than a single IEP coach)

 

[MCR247]

Don't know tbh

 

[swt_passenger]

Oddly enough the more recent 'conversion' of some 3 car 158s into 159/1s by SWT wasn't really a conversion. They were only renumbered for SWT's own purposes, which was to differentiate 3 car from 2 car units.

I got this info from the then SWT engineering director, when the first unit was introduced into service at Salisbury.

OTOH the original 159/0s did originally have slight technical differences.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

155s to 153s? Proposals about 322s becoming 321/3s (IIRC), though this hasn't happened yet.

As for route clearances, this is a tricky subject because you get onto the "Pacers aren't cleared for Third Rail" examples (I know this isn't the case...) and various other urban legends.

Yes - I've seen a Pacer in Eastleigh platform 2 - but the SR sectional appendices don't list them as cleared for third rail land.

As we've discussed before though, 'not cleared' doesn't mean 'can't be cleared'. It just means it hasn't been attempted yet because it isn't needed.

 

[First class]

Class 142s go over third rail every single day!!! It certainly has been attempted and are cleared!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Some of the southern region electric locos (class 70s) were converted to electro diesels (class 71s?).

That was 71s to 74s I think.

 

[ukrob]

Yes - I've seen a Pacer in Eastleigh platform 2 - but the SR sectional appendices don't list them as cleared for third rail land.

As we've discussed before though, 'not cleared' doesn't mean 'can't be cleared'. It just means it hasn't been attempted yet because it isn't needed.

Not again.

Why do people say this so frequently? As pictured above, it happens multiple times in every hour of every day.

Serious question, I'm not having a dig at you, but why does this myth persist?

We can add 222's to being able to run over third rail too as happened today when a 222 was on a Liverpool - Nottingham diagram. I only mention this as it is not an every day occurrence as far as I am aware.

 

[asylumxl]

Not again.

Why do people say this so frequently? As pictured above, it happens multiple times in every hour of every day.

Serious question, I'm not having a dig at you, but why does this myth persist?

We can add 222's to being able to run over third rail too as happened today when a 222 was on a Liverpool - Nottingham diagram. I only mention this as it is not an every day occurrence as far as I am aware.

He said it wasn't listed as cleared in the SR, which is not up North. Yes it may be cleared up north, but they're not cleared down here, as we don't want them .

 

[142]

Any reason why not (and how far north they could run from Bristol/Cardiff)? Pacers are pretty short (a two coach Pacer is only going to be slightly longer than a single IEP coach)

Great Malvern on the FGW network
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Pacers in general aren't allowed south Chesterfield as Northern found out on a driver training run

One went through Chesterfield not long back from Philips Marsh-Heaton

 

[BestWestern]

On the subject of clearances on the SR - Class 153's aren't allowed to operate any further than Southampton when coming down from the Salisbury/Westbury direction, due to problems with crew steps on the 'new' cab end not clearing the platforms. Obscure clearance issues at individual stations aren't that uncommon, Class 158's used to be banned from the loop at Hove, for example.

 

[jopsuk]

"not cleared" also isn't a permanent thing- if running 158s or 170s up the West Highland was really desired by Scotrail, I'm sure all efforts (including, if needed, platform works) would be carried out.

 

[swt_passenger]

He said it wasn't listed as cleared in the SR, which is not up North. Yes it may be cleared up north, but they're not cleared down here, as we don't want them .

Thank you. 175s and 222s are two other classes that are not covered in the SR (public online) sectional appendices. As I clearly pointed out earlier that doesn't mean they can't be cleared whenever it becomes needed.

So fact: 142s are not yet cleared across the SR generally, and there is no column heading for them in the SA tables of restrictions.
and myth: 142s can never be cleared?

 

[starrymarkb]

The Gunnislake line is restricted to a class 150 or single 153.

Double Dogboxes or 158s are banned (presumably due to clearances between coaches on the sharp corners.

Similarly Pacers are restricted in Cornwall due to wheel and track wear. I beleive they were restricted on the branches around Exeter to x trips per week due to poor track, however there have been a lot of track renewals since the 142s and 143s arrived at Exeter to lift these restrictions.