Contactless PAYG in the Thames Valley

[Towers]

Yes, but isn't the point that there will be a move to simplistic fares in the South East PAYG area? Extension nationwide isn't going to happen I agree.

Gating the stations at Henley, Marlow and Windsor (and Twyford) should have been part of this extension.

I'd love to see simple fares, in the SE or anywhere else. But I don't hold out much hope!

 

[Hadders]

I'd love to see simple fares, in the SE or anywhere else. But I don't hold out much hope!

How do you define ‘simple fares’?

Be clear that simple fares would mean passengers pay more.

 

[Non Multi]

Gating the stations at Henley, Marlow and Windsor (and Twyford) should have been part of this extension.

Marlow is an unstaffed single platform halt with a bus shelter, so that would involve construction work to build a small covered gateline structure.

The Windsor platform has 2 entrances, so gating would require one to be closed, as well as finding the space to put gates and extra partitions.

Henley would require staffing for much more of the day than at present.

 

[JonathanH]

Henley would require staffing for much more of the day than at present.

One member of staff to monitor the gates from first to last train just like GTR do at many (not all) of their stations. The ticket office hours wouldn't need to change.

The Windsor platform has 2 entrances, so gating would require one to be closed, as well as finding the space to put gates and extra partitions.

Nothing really wrong with closing off the one at the country end. Windsor & Eton Central should have been gated years ago - I assume the issue is the matter of where the railway property ends and other ownership starts. One possibility could be specific extra ticket gates at Slough for the Windsor branch if there isn't room at Windsor itself.

Marlow is an unstaffed single platform halt with a bus shelter, so that would involve construction work to build a small covered gateline structure.

Yes, but construction work is needed for any gateline. There are plenty of examples now of gatelines at stations without a ticket office.

I do wonder whether the Henley and Marlow branches would make good test cases for remotely monitored gatelines with a member of staff in a back office somewhere monitoring as necessary.

 

[Hadders]

Marlow is an unstaffed single platform halt with a bus shelter, so that would involve construction work to build a small covered gateline structure.

The Windsor platform has 2 entrances, so gating would require one to be closed, as well as finding the space to put gates and extra partitions.

Henley would require staffing for much more of the day than at present.

Why? No need for a gateline, standalone validators will do.

 

[Non Multi]

One member of staff to monitor the gates from first to last train just like GTR do at many (not all) of their stations. The ticket office hours wouldn't need to change

GWR tend to leave gates open in the evening anyway. There's a lot of up front costs to install gates, especially where there's hardly much of a station and then fully staff them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Mar 2022 ==

Why? No need for a gateline, standalone validators will do.

I generally agree. The only station that really requires a gateline for revenue protection IMO is Windsor & Eton Central.

 

[Jamiescott1]

I saw a card reader at bourne end the other day. Never noticed it before

 

[JonathanH]

Message from GWR today announcing the availability of Contactless.

​

from 28 March, more stations are going contactless​

​

Henley-on-Thames – Shiplake – Wargrave – Windsor & Eton Central Travelling with us is about to get even easier. From 28 March, there's no need to stop at the machines to buy a ticket. Just go contactless and enjoy the convenience of tapping in and out at more stations on the London Thames Valley Line.​

Fares are now shown in the TfL fares finder. As ever, great news for one way journeys and passengers travelling in the morning peak. Other customers probably need to be a bit more wary.

Interestingly, Twyford to Reading is peak in the evening, stations on the Henley branch to Reading aren't. I guess it would have been odd however this was done - eg if Henley to Reading was peak and Henley to Maidenhead wasn't.

To some extent I was a bit surprised with the original Thames Valley implementation that they didn't apply the blanket afternoon peak in the first place (with the exception of journeys to Zone 1).

 

[londonbridge]

Notwithstanding the fact it’s not valid, if you touched in at Reading and took Southwestern to Waterloo with no onboard ticket check, how much would you get charged?

 

[JonathanH]

Notwithstanding the fact it’s not valid, if you touched in at Reading and took Southwestern to Waterloo with no onboard ticket check, how much would you get charged?

The charge would be the same as going via Ealing Broadway / Turnham Green / Richmond which should be the Reading to Zone 1 mixed mode fare, or going to Paddington which is the Reading to Zone 1 NR only fare.

Therefore £28.50 / £13.80 if it is mixed mode and £26.00 / £11.30 if priced as NR only.

Incidentally, I note that some Crossrail fares are now shown as well - Reading to any of the Crossrail stations reflects the mixed mode premium. It is clearly the direction of travel that cross London travel will reflect the mixed-mode premium once paper tickets are withdrawn.

 

[Jamiescott1]

I see a reader has been installed at marlow Station

 

[JonathanH]

I see a reader has been installed at marlow Station

The fares are already in the single fare finder for the Marlow branch but it isn't live yet.

 

[Bread & cheese]

GWR have issued a press release:
https://news.gwr.com/news/pay-as-you-go-with-contactless-extended-to-gwr-branch-lines

Which states:

• It is not yet possible to get Railcard discounts or child fares on Contactless. This is something TfL Rail is working on for the future

 

[cactustwirly]

Message from GWR today announcing the availability of Contactless.



Fares are now shown in the TfL fares finder. As ever, great news for one way journeys and passengers travelling in the morning peak. Other customers probably need to be a bit more wary.

Interestingly, Twyford to Reading is peak in the evening, stations on the Henley branch to Reading aren't. I guess it would have been odd however this was done - eg if Henley to Reading was peak and Henley to Maidenhead wasn't.

To some extent I was a bit surprised with the original Thames Valley implementation that they didn't apply the blanket afternoon peak in the first place (with the exception of journeys to Zone 1).

Should all be off peak anyway as paper tickets don't have evening restrictions...

This is what makes contactless more expensive, especially out of Paddington where paper tickets let you use stopping trains with an off peak ticket during the evening.

 

[JonathanH]

Should all be off peak anyway as paper tickets don't have evening restrictions...

This is what makes contactless more expensive, especially out of Paddington where paper tickets let you use stopping trains with an off peak ticket during the evening.

Single leg pricing only really works with an afternoon peak to match the morning one, the other option would be to charge much more for journeys in the morning peak. If they did that, there would be more anomalies compared with the fares within London.

It is somewhat inconsistent that TfL Rail services can be used with off-peak 'paper' tickets in the evening peak out of Paddington (and not, where GWR is the fare setter, for almost all GWR services), yet TfL's own fare structure on Contactless charges a peak fare to travel on the same TfL Rail services in the evening peak (obviously dependent on the first touch in).

I appreciate that travelling from the distant side of the Contactless area may mean that passengers could be passing through Paddington well after 8pm and need to be paying a peak fare, having touched in before 7pm. That is even worse if trying to connect to the branches. I guess the point is to try and break the through journey somehow.

 

[Non Multi]

I'm very much looking forward to this (once it's all completed), as single leg pricing makes a circular (or pan shaped) journey using the mainline, then around the Marlow and Henley branches into a much more reasonably priced total fare (including a single fare journey on the frequent Arriva 800/850 bus between Marlow & Henley).

---

An example circular journey using the Marlow & Henley branches: TfL Rail from Langley to Maidenhead - GWR train to Marlow - 800/850 Arriva bus to Henley - GWR train to Twyford - TfL Rail train back to Langley.

 

[Hadders]

An example circular journey using the Marlow & Henley branches: TfL Rail from Langley to Maidenhead - GWR train to Marlow - 800/850 Arriva bus to Henley - GWR train to Twyford - TfL Rail train back to Langley.

Worth pointing out that Off Peak Day Return fares on the Thames branches are inter-available.

Tickets from Henley-on-Thames Bourne End, Cookham, Furze Platt, Marlow, Shiplake, Wargrave or Windsor & Eton Central may be used at any of these stations as long as the ticket is issued to the furthest point. Very useful for a circular journey or if walking the Thames Path.

 

[Non Multi]

Worth pointing out that Off Peak Day Return fares on the Thames branches are inter-available.

Tickets from Henley-on-Thames Bourne End, Cookham, Furze Platt, Marlow, Shiplake, Wargrave or Windsor & Eton Central may be used at any of these stations as long as the ticket is issued to the furthest point. Very useful for a circular journey or if walking the Thames Path.

I wish I'd known about that years ago!

I'm surprised and slightly disappointed the branch line user groups aren't actively promoting the useful inter-availability of return tickets. I've certainly never seen TOC publicity about it either.

Anyway, thanks for informing me and others about this.

 

[island]

Worth pointing out that Off Peak Day Return fares on the Thames branches are inter-available.

Tickets from Henley-on-Thames Bourne End, Cookham, Furze Platt, Marlow, Shiplake, Wargrave or Windsor & Eton Central may be used at any of these stations as long as the ticket is issued to the furthest point. Very useful for a circular journey or if walking the Thames Path.

There's also the Thames Branches Day Ranger for people who want to make multiple or overlapping journeys.

 

[ess]

Worth pointing out that Off Peak Day Return fares on the Thames branches are inter-available.

Tickets from Henley-on-Thames Bourne End, Cookham, Furze Platt, Marlow, Shiplake, Wargrave or Windsor & Eton Central may be used at any of these stations as long as the ticket is issued to the furthest point. Very useful for a circular journey or if walking the Thames Path.

Is this documented somewhere for passengers to read / quote?

 

[Hadders]

Is this documented somewhere for passengers to read / quote?

Certainly not on GWRs website. I had a disagreement with a guard about it a few onths back. I persisted (several times) with a complaint to GWR and eventually got confirmation that it still exists.

 

[Bread & cheese]

Certainly not on GWRs website. I had a disagreement with a guard about it a few onths back. I persisted (several times) with a complaint to GWR and eventually got confirmation that it still exists.

I'm told that it is in the internal version of the National Rail website, but I can't find it in the public version.

 

[Haywain]

I'm told that it is in the internal version of the National Rail website, but I can't find it in the public version.

Yes, it’s in Knowledgebase. Hidden away in the Inter-available stations list.

 

[MikeWh]

Certainly not on GWRs website. I had a disagreement with a guard about it a few onths back. I persisted (several times) with a complaint to GWR and eventually got confirmation that it still exists.

Well the good thing about contactless PAYG is that it's all handled automatically. The system will cap at the day travelcard rate for the furthest station you visit no matter how many times you go up and down branches.

 

[Haywain]

Well the good thing about contactless PAYG is that it's all handled automatically. The system will cap at the day travelcard rate for the furthest station you visit no matter how many times you go up and down branches.

I wouldn't like to rely on that - contactless deals in single fares and the inter-availability is specifically for an Off Peak Day Return. My interpretation is that it means you can go up one of the branches on the outward journey and start the return on a different branch, and not use the ticket as a rover to do all the branches.

 

[MikeWh]

I wouldn't like to rely on that - contactless deals in single fares and the inter-availability is specifically for an Off Peak Day Return. My interpretation is that it means you can go up one of the branches on the outward journey and start the return on a different branch, and not use the ticket as a rover to do all the branches.

OK, so it won't cap at a day return rate. But it definitely will cap at the day travelcard rate for the furthest station you visit. I tested this recently by making several trips to Iver and it capped at the Iver travelcard rate.

 

[JonathanH]

Well the good thing about contactless PAYG is that it's all handled automatically. The system will cap at the day travelcard rate for the furthest station you visit no matter how many times you go up and down branches.

Within London on a Zone 1 centric basis? I thought you previously indicated that there is no capping beyond Zone 6 on the Contactless only extensions?

EDIT Ah, I see the further reply.

Nevertheless a Zone 1 centric cap isn't much use for someone travelling from Reading to Marlow and then back from Henley stopping off on the way.

 

[MikeWh]

Nevertheless a Zone 1 centric cap isn't much use for someone travelling from Reading to Marlow and then back from Henley stopping off on the way.

Yes, I agree.


Contactless caps were introduced silently during the first lock down.

 

[Haywain]

I tested this recently by making several trips to Iver and it capped at the Iver travelcard rate.

So they've effectively introduced a 'reverse' outboundary Travelcard?

 

[MikeWh]

So they've effectively introduced a 'reverse' outboundary Travelcard?

Yes.