Contactless bank cards on London buses

[maniacmartin]

London bus contactless system charging wrong cards

One hang-over from introducing contactless bank cards on the buses to pay for your fare, is that some people are being charged on the wrong card.

This happens when your bank card and your Oyster card are next to each other in your wallet.

Transport for London (TfL) did warn passengers this could happen.

It could mean you could be charged twice for your fare, for example if you have a weekly travelcard loaded on your Oyster card and when getting on the bus you are charged on your bankcard.

I've also been contacted by TfL staff who are getting charged on their bank card instead of their free staff Oyster card.

Not high number

The numbers are not high at the moment, Tfl claim they have only been contacted 60 times so far about incorrect charging.

(Full Article)

It seems when presenting a wallet with both an Oyster (possibly containing a travelcard) and also a contactless bank card, sometimes the bus will charge the bank card if that's the only one it detects.

 

[cjohnson]

Which is why when contactless payment was introduced, TfL specifically said "please choose the card that you intend to pay with, and touch it on its own on the yellow card reader. If you don't there is a small possibility that payment will be taken from a card that you did not intend using."

 

[jon0844]

The story says: Transport for London (TfL) did warn passengers this could happen.

I now have a number of contactless payment cards in my wallet. It's pretty obvious that if I tried to wave my wallet, it would either fail or potentially communicate with the wrong card.

Okay, so some people might not realise that - but the comments on the above story seem to accuse TfL of robbing people and loads of other ridiculous statements! Is the BBC attracting people who got bored of posting on the Mail Online?

 

[luke_oliver]

What would happen if someone uses a Barclaycard Onepulse Card where it has an Oyster Card and Contactless payment in the same card?

 

[jon0844]

Apparently it will use the Oyster part, and NOT the credit card at all.

Barclaycard One Pulse cards

Although your Barclaycard OnePulse has contactless technology built in, it will only be recognised on as an Oyster card and cannot be used for contactless payments on London's buses.

This is the card I have, but I've not tried since the buses started taking cards. Barclays no longer issue these cards either.

I expect they've specifically set these cards (as a credit card) to be rejected to 'solve' this problem? If so, a bit of a bodge but perhaps the only solution.

 

[cjohnson]

I had one of those OnePulse cards until recently - it was definitely playing up before the introduction of contactless payment (throwing up all sorts of errors on NR and LUL gatelines), but once the contactless payment option was introduced it refused to work on buses at all. One of the errors it gave was something along the lines of "Two cards presented". (I've since transferred it to a new, vanilla, Oystercard).

 

[luke_oliver]

I will be interested to see what happens when I am down in London next. Barclaycard may have stopped them for new applicants but they sent me a new one in January when my last one expired.

 

[CNash]

I thought the "Two cards presented" error would prevent this situation from happening. But in any case, there's no foolproof method to guard against people's stupidity - TfL specifically say to not present a contactless payment card and an Oyster card in close proximity, and then people complain because they've done just that and it's charged the wrong card.

I've used my debit card on buses once or twice, when I've unexpectedly run out of credit, and it's worked very well each time.

 

[cjohnson]

I've used my debit card on buses once or twice, when I've unexpectedly run out of credit, and it's worked very well each time.

Are receipts given? If not, how would one prove to a ticket inspector that the bus fare has been paid?

 

[Deerfold]

Are receipts given? If not, how would one prove to a ticket inspector that the bus fare has been paid?

No. The ticket machine can issue a list of (part) card numbers for an inspector to check against.

 

[jon0844]

I got the impression that in some circumstances, and probably only if the card is held on the reader for some time, you might get two cards read. Chances are most do just give the "Two cards presented" error and it's not as big a problem as people might make out.

Of course, a lot of people travel in London so even a tiny, tiny percentage can become quite large in actual numbers.

While TfL has warned people, I wonder if the card issuers themselves have warned people when issuing new contactless cards? If they state the possible risk of having more than one card, the card owner has accepted the T&Cs when they began using the card.. As such, it's their fault for not reading the paperwork.

 

[GNER 91128]

When I tried to use my Stagecoach Smart through my wallet on my local bus, it wouldn't go through and it came up on the drivers screen that there were "too many cards" perhaps the London buses need to be the same.

 

[jon0844]

I suspect they are, hence the 'two cards' error and possibly more codes for more cards found - but depending on where the cards are in your wallet, it's possible that if held for some time (but why would you do that when boarding, as it's more of a tap), it will find and communicate with one and then again with another - assuming it's a second transaction from a second person.

The readers must be set to allow a quick succession of cards as people can board very quickly, so how can it know it's a card in the same wallet?

Rather than try and invent a solution, that can automatically know what card to use from a wallet full of cards, the simple solution is to present just one to the reader - and that means taking the card out, or keeping it separate. My Barclaycard/Oyster is actually in my ticket wallet, not my main wallet.

NFC is the future, but God help us when Apple finally 'invents it' and adds NFC to the iPhone - which it will only once it has sorted a way to secure a nice revenue stream from it. You'll then have loads of people who might own a fancy smartphone but aren't that tech-minded and will probably have all sorts of problems!

 

[maniacmartin]

And loads of people whose tickets stop working when their battery goes flat!

 

[jon0844]

The power to read/write to the chip is provided by the device you touch. So, the phone wouldn't need to be switched on in all cases - clearly it would if the touching process is to trigger an action on the device (e.g. touching to receive a code, open an app, trigger a specific action).

Your Oyster card doesn't have a battery in it.

 

[bb21]

Rather than try and invent a solution, that can automatically know what card to use from a wallet full of cards, the simple solution is to present just one to the reader - and that means taking the card out, or keeping it separate. My Barclaycard/Oyster is actually in my ticket wallet, not my main wallet.

Exactly. Why are we looking for solution to a problem that doesn't really exist?

How lazy do people have to be to not bother taking their cards out?