Contacting guard in non-emergencies

[maniacmartin]

I am reading the thread about use of emergency door release and would like to raise a slightly different topic - contacting the guard/TM in a non-emergency situation.

I have often wondered why next to PASCOMs there isn't an intercom for non-emergency use which connects to the guards' cab or a walkie talkie that the guard or TM could carry. This would enable a passenger to report something that's not an emergency, such as other passengers refusing to give up reserved seats, doors that don't open, PIS/tannoy too quiet to be audible (a common occurance), request for information about an unexpected long delay etc.

I presume the reason that this isn't implemented is that the guard would be swamped with frivolous requests and be unable to do his/her other duties. Would such a system ever be viable?

 

[TDK]

I am reading the thread about use of emergency door release and would like to raise a slightly different topic - contacting the guard/TM in a non-emergency situation.

I have often wondered why next to PASCOMs there isn't an intercom for non-emergency use which connects to the guards' cab or a walkie talkie that the guard or TM could carry. This would enable a passenger to report something that's not an emergency, such as other passengers refusing to give up reserved seats, doors that don't open, PIS/tannoy too quiet to be audible (a common occurance), request for information about an unexpected long delay etc.

I presume the reason that this isn't implemented is that the guard would be swamped with frivolous requests and be unable to do his/her other duties. Would such a system ever be viable?

The refurbed 158's have a call for aid that sends a message over the PA to the guard, otherwise I suppose you will need to go and look for them

 

[bronzeonion]

I suppose you could knock on the cab door or if he/she is in the saloon just simply find them.

 

[Dave1987]

360's have a "Call for Aid" in the toilet and in the disabled area. These are not pass comms as they do not initiate a brake application. I don't think they are necessary as they would probably be misused constantly. We have enough trouble with little scrotes pulling pass comms because its "funny".

 

[chris89]

Depends on the stock.

I once had to request a guard on a VT221, due to the toilet mirror door assembly was flapping open. All i did is went to the shop and the person who was there put out a buzz code/ called the guard where ever he was in the train.

Chris

 

[Matt Taylor]

Thanks but I rarely get a moment to myself as it is, I spend 95% of my time either doing the doors, selling tickets, checking tickets or dealing with other passenger requests. Any TM/guard who is doing their job properly will be patrolling the train on a regular basis anyway, any such 'call for aid' system would only be open to abuse.

Youths pressing every button at every seat because 'it's a laugh'.

Being to called to intervene in petty disputes between passengers 'he's got his arm on the armrest, I want my arm on the armrest'

It also has the potential to put the staff member in a very dangerous position by being ambushed and then possibly assaulted by groups of youths etc,

 

[Goatboy]

Even the PASCOM doesnt appear to notify the guard if its used. I was on a 158 a few months ago and a child pulled the PASCOM. The train immediately stopped. I went and found the guard who at first told me we were probably waiting at a signal and it was only after I insisted it was because somebody had pulled the emergency alarm because I'd watched them do it that he came and reset it so we could get underway. He was just making his way through the train checking tickets.

It seems odd there isn't some sort of coded beep to notify the guard of this?

 

[headshot119]

Thanks but I rarely get a moment to myself as it is, I spend 95% of my time either doing the doors, selling tickets, checking tickets or dealing with other passenger requests. Any TM/guard who is doing their job properly will be patrolling the train on a regular basis anyway, any such 'call for aid' system would only be open to abuse.

Youths pressing every button at every seat because 'it's a laugh'.

Being to called to intervene in petty disputes between passengers 'he's got his arm on the armrest, I want my arm on the armrest'

It also has the potential to put the staff member in a very dangerous position by being ambushed and then possibly assaulted by groups of youths etc,

I've noticed that since ATW have refurbed the 158's and fitted a call for aid button in the toilets, almost every night I travel home on one I hear the dreaded "Attention Conductor, Call For Aid Activated!" message over the PA.

 

[tony6499]

I've noticed that since ATW have refurbed the 158's and fitted a call for aid button in the toilets, almost every night I travel home on one I hear the dreaded "Attention Conductor, Call For Aid Activated!" message over the PA.

The refurbished 313 stock have the same

 

[CC 72100]

The refurbished 313 stock have the same

Not in the toilets I take it though! There aren't any! (Well, official ones)

 

[DelayRepay]

I have to say I've never needed to contact the guard in a non-emergency. I have occasionally wanted to contact the guard in a non-emergency but that's slightly different. Normally, as others have said, you can find the guard by walking through the train, looking to see which set of doors he is at when the train departs from a station or, on Intercity trains by going to the buffet car/First Class and speaking to the catering staff.


I imagine if there were "call the guard" buttons, people would mis-use them, press them by mistake or think they were like the "call cabin crew" buttons on planes, and press them to try to order cups of tea!

 

[Cherry_Picker]

They would definitely change the role of the guard on the train. I think you would struggle to introduce such a feature on a train with only a driver and a guard. On services with a larger train crew then maybe so.

 

[Crossover]

I've noticed that since ATW have refurbed the 158's and fitted a call for aid button in the toilets, almost every night I travel home on one I hear the dreaded "Attention Conductor, Call For Aid Activated!" message over the PA.

Not just in the toilets. Last time I was on one, a HUD pressed it in the wheelchair area and the guard wasn't quite sure how to reset it. He wasn't at all annoyed since it was just an inquisitive kid, and said as much.

 

[Roverman]

They should definitely have a 'call host button' in 1st class so you can summon them when you want more coffee!

 

[142094]

I can't see this working realistically - many times a lot of the questions that people ask on board really should be dealt with at a ticket office. Hard enough doing a full revenue check without the added work load IMO.

 

[O L Leigh]

Doesn't stop them pressing the PASSCOM buttons to tell me that they think they've boarded the wrong train. Grr!!

But to address the OP's question, I would ask one of my own. What situation could arise that you feel the need to summon the guard from wherever he/she is and distract them from whatever duties he/she is discharging by means of a button? Surely if it's not an emergency they really don't need to be summoned. Any such matters can, if needs be, be discussed when the guard passes through the train. But then, if it's not an emergency situation, what need is there to inform the guard anyway. They are busy people with important jobs to do and probably would not welcome your meddling in their business. Most of the examples that the OP gives are the sorts of things that the traincrew would be aware of anyway. Believe it or not, quite a few drivers and guards will communicate about operational issues and difficulties affecting their train or service anyway without any prompting from the passengers, thank you.

O L Leigh

 

[Gemz91]

Think if they gave me a walkie talkie it would get left in the bottem of my kit bag in the back cab.
They'd also have to stitch another pocket on my uniforme, as I use my trouser pockets for coins, shirt pocket for notes, belt for work phone (incase control need to contact me whilst I'm checking tickets). Would be no room on me to carry a walkie talkie too.

 

[Tom B]

Earlier in the year I was stuck on an East Coast service near Hitchin. The previous service had been cancelled and so this one was full to standing capacity, with no way of moving about the train let alone going to find the guard. We stood at Hitchin for 50 minutes during which time there were no tannoy announcements made (the tannoy worked perfectly before and after, fwiw). It would have been useful to be able to contact the guard to find out what the hell was going on - rather than trying to phone East Coast (closed) or NR enquiries ("So sir, you wish to travel from Hitchin today?" "Oh well if you are on a train then is no problem?").

 

[Flamingo]

I'm constantly amazed at the number of people doing quite complex journeys that ask the most basic questions, like where do I change, and what time is my connection at.

I think an at-seat call bell would be a nightmare, with all sort of unintended consequences, one that springs to mind is the defence every time anyone is stopped with no ticket at a gateline "I pressed the call-bell but the guard never came"...

On my trains it's easy, find the buffet, find the guard!

 

[2Dogbox]

If passengers need to ask me something and don't ask me when I do tickets, they normally knock on the back cab door. However, as we mostly work on dogboxes round here it's not difficult for passengers to work out where the back cab is really.

We do sometimes get passengers knocking on the back door and drivers door to ask if its the toilet, or if they can walk through to the other carriages . . . What other carriages ...

 

[johnb]

Even the PASCOM doesnt appear to notify the guard if its used. I was on a 158 a few months ago and a child pulled the PASCOM. The train immediately stopped. I went and found the guard who at first told me we were probably waiting at a signal and it was only after I insisted it was because somebody had pulled the emergency alarm because I'd watched them do it that he came and reset it so we could get underway. He was just making his way through the train checking tickets. It seems odd there isn't some sort of coded beep to notify the guard of this?

Are you sure that was the guard, rather than a revenue chap? That sounds really quite un-guard-ish behaviour.

 

[the sniper]

Are you sure that was the guard, rather than a revenue chap? That sounds really quite un-guard-ish behaviour.

The guard was doing tickets. As he wasn't in the back cab he'd have no idea unless the driver got on the PA.

A good reason for the Guard to stay in the back cab of a night time, when PASSCOM misuse is more prevalent. Stick to the core duties... That's the view my TOC would take anyway when I had to account for the delay.

EDIT: Unless you mean them checking tickets was quite 'un-guard-ish behaviour'. In which case I'm inclined to agree!

 

[krus_aragon]

Doesn't stop them pressing the PASSCOM buttons to tell me that they think they've boarded the wrong train. Grr!!

But to address the OP's question, I would ask one of my own. What situation could arise that you feel the need to summon the guard from wherever he/she is and distract them from whatever duties he/she is discharging by means of a button? Surely if it's not an emergency they really don't need to be summoned. Any such matters can, if needs be, be discussed when the guard passes through the train. But then, if it's not an emergency situation, what need is there to inform the guard anyway. They are busy people with important jobs to do and probably would not welcome your meddling in their business. Most of the examples that the OP gives are the sorts of things that the traincrew would be aware of anyway. Believe it or not, quite a few drivers and guards will communicate about operational issues and difficulties affecting their train or service anyway without any prompting from the passengers, thank you.

O L Leigh

I've chased after the guard in an 'emergency', just the once. On pulling into Abergele station I saw a child's bicycle on the opposite tracks. Once the train stopped I stuck my head out of an open door to check at what end the guard was (rear) and then as he dispatched he train I walked down the train to tell him what I'd seen. I assume he told control and the driver of the next oncoming service was warned.

 

[maniacmartin]

My thinking was that by installing a "non-emergency" intercom next to every PASCOM (not next to every seat!) then it could also potentially cut down on passengers using the PASCOM for non-emergencies if they see an alternative button next to it.

 

[BestWestern]

The guard was doing tickets. As he wasn't in the back cab he'd have no idea unless the driver got on the PA.

I'd have to say that I would expect a Guard to be aware if the train had made an emergency stop, as they do when a PASSCOM is operated. The sudden halt is quite different to a normal stop and is immediately noticeable, whether you are stood up doing tix or sat down somewhere. When you feel it, you stop what you are doing and going to the nearest opening window to look for the dreaded hazard light. I can only imagine that Guard in this case might have had low expectations of his Driver!

Just to clarify, the 'Call for aid' is fitted usually for the benefit of disabled passengers, hence why they are located in disabled toilets and wheelchair bays, and not generally throughout the rest of the train. There is nothing to stop anybody else from using them I suppose, but they aren't intended for 'general enquiries'!

 

[cjp]

Even the PASCOM doesnt appear to notify the guard if its used. I was on a 158 a few months ago and a child pulled the PASCOM. The train immediately stopped. I went and found the guard who at first told me we were probably waiting at a signal and it was only after I insisted it was because somebody had pulled the emergency alarm because I'd watched them do it that he came and reset it so we could get underway. He was just making his way through the train checking tickets.

It seems odd there isn't some sort of coded beep to notify the guard of this?

Was it a passcom thing (red) or the emergency thing (green) that was pulled?
When I operated a passcom the driver and I spoke, he called his control for an ambulance and we carried on without slowing let alone stopping until we got to the next station where the chap was attended to.
I thought with a passcom they could be and would be overridden by the driver unless or until the train is in a station where help can come.
And it is operating the Green device puts on the brakes and will open doors.
Have I got it wrong?

 

[noddingdonkey]

Was it a passcom thing (red) or the emergency thing (green) that was pulled?
When I operated a passcom the driver and I spoke, he called his control for an ambulance and we carried on without slowing let alone stopping until we got to the next station where the chap was attended to.
I thought with a passcom they could be and would be overridden by the driver unless or until the train is in a station where help can come.
And it is operating the Green device puts on the brakes and will open doors.
Have I got it wrong?

It depends on the stock. On more modern units the PASSCOM activates an intercom to the driver, on older stock it's an immediate emergency brake application.

One thought to add - would it not be useful for non-corridor units working in multiple for there to be some means for the passengers to be able to contact the guard from the other unit? If only to give some indication that a passenger wishes to speak with the guard at the next station stop without risking getting left on the platform.

 

[BestWestern]

One thought to add - would it not be useful for non-corridor units working in multiple for there to be some means for the passengers to be able to contact the guard from the other unit? If only to give some indication that a passenger wishes to speak with the guard at the next station stop without risking getting left on the platform.

It might be useful, from the point of view of the passenger at least, but not very practical really. The Guard may be dealing with other passengers, or there might be an operational reason for being in another unit. Ultimately, we do need to remember that the Guard has various duties, only some of which involve dealing with passengers' needs. We are there to run the train in general, rather than simply to act as stewards Passengers can generally find us if they need to, and I think that is probably the most sensible way of doing things.

Incidentally, how would this 'call button' system work when several people have all pressed the button?!

 

[507 001]

Not in the toilets I take it though! There aren't any! (Well, official ones)

They do on Southern's

 

[Dave1987]

360's have call for aid buttons in the toilets and in the wheelchair area. They do not initiate a brake application when pressed.