Construction progress: TPE 350/4

[fowler9]

I don't know about the 350 working yesterday, but the later northbound 185s were full and standing, with Scots heading off for Hogmanay.
Not helped by Virgin cancelling the 1253 Preston-Glasgow because there was no crew for it.
They were stuck further north because of flooding, so the Pendolino was reversed to pick up the southbound working.
All excellent service recovery, except for the trainload of disgruntled Scots dumped on the platform at Preston (to find the following 6-car TP service already "full and standing").

The price of the governments "flexible workforce". Just tell them to get on their bikes.

 

[Crossover]

Was the train full coming from Wigan ? Did they need the eight coaches ?

Thanks for any information .

Standish

I'm not sure how busy it was. Coaches A, B and C had no-one standing (apart from 3 of us wandering up and down it) but beyond that, there were some standees, but I don't think it was because of no seats to be honest (one had a dog)

We didn't walk through into the front unit but on arrival at Wigan it looked fairly well loaded. I suspect it would have been a bit cosy had it just been a 4 car, I have to say.

I'm advised the Northbound service, as far as Preston at least, carried mainly fresh air :P

 

[STANDISH]

Many thanks for that information Crossover. 350403 was on its own on the southbound service this afternoon .May be a couple of minutes late north of Wigan.

 

[Crossover]

Many thanks for that information Crossover. 350403 was on its own on the southbound service this afternoon .May be a couple of minutes late north of Wigan.

Indeed it was 350403 - another friend has been on it and has posted pictures on Facebook

It looks like it had a better run today, leaving 1L from Piccadilly on the northbound, and arriving at Glasgow 4E

Southbound, it left Glasgow RT and arrived at Piccadilly only about 4L today

 

[Haydn1971]

Here's a question... Would it be technically possible to pair up a 185 with a 350 ? Diesel electric hybrid haha

 

[Des Iroman]

As they are at the minute, definitely not.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Here's a question... Would it be technically possible to pair up a 185 with a 350 ? Diesel electric hybrid haha

If 350s have Scharfenberg couplers, then in theory one could rescue the other- but other than possibly auxiliary supply for lighting etc., there'd be no way for one to actually power the other. I'd be surprised and impressed if the onboard software would allow the units to actually operate in tandem.

 

[fowler9]

A symbol for our times, Siemens make units that just can't work together for the common good. Ha ha.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

According to gen groups, 350 404 and 350 405 arrived through the tunnel today, one of them having been unofficially redecorated while they were still on the other side of "The Ditch".

 

[swt_passenger]

A symbol for our times, Siemens make units that just can't work together for the common good. Ha ha.

I don't see why you are implying criticism of Siemens.

Are you aware of many other existing EMUs and DMUs that can 'work together'? How about Networkers and Network Turbos? What about 14x and 15x DMUs and similar vintage EMUs?

Other than 171s and 377s or 221s and 390s being able to couple, for rescue purposes only so not actually working together either, I can't think of anything else off hand? Has any normal DMU/EMU working together ever been specified in a build contract - I'd expect not.

 

[Class377/5]

I don't see why you are implying criticism of Siemens.

Are you aware of many other existing EMUs and DMUs that can 'work together'? How about Networkers and Network Turbos? What about 14x and 15x DMUs and similar vintage EMUs?

Other than 171s and 377s or 221s and 390s being able to couple, for rescue purposes only so not actually working together either, I can't think of anything else off hand? Has any normal DMU/EMU working together ever been specified in a build contract - I'd expect not.

Remember its fashionable to attack Siemens when they simply do the same as every other manufacture.

 

[455driver]

A bit of foresight and we could have made the "Auckland modifications" to the ones that remained in the UK further service.

Would never get past the crashworthyness, type approval bullmanure we have in this country! :roll:

The speed things become noncompliant in this country is ridiculous and serves no useful purpose whatsoever.
Engines on 222s now noncompliant, Why? They are clean and economical (for the power output) but cant be built anymore.
350 bodyshells now noncompliant, but its okay to build the 380s with their weeweepoor view for the driver!

No I am not advocating going back to mark 1s before all the pedantic prats start!

I can understand (and agree with) improvements but when the only gain is to make things heavier, more complicated and expensive then what exactly is the point?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If 350s have Scharfenberg couplers, then in theory one could rescue the other- but other than possibly auxiliary supply for lighting etc., there'd be no way for one to actually power the other. I'd be surprised and impressed if the onboard software would allow the units to actually operate in tandem.

so because they have the same coupler they can couple together can they?
A few questions-
Are the couplers mounted at the same height?
Are the boxes the same shape?
Are the boxes mounted in the same place?
Are the pins aranged in the same order?
Is the software compatible?

That will do for starters!

 

[Rhydgaled]

Is there anywhere publicly accessible online that lists timetable change dates? Not just for the next one (which, I can tell from the current timetables, will be 17th/18th May 2014) but also for the September and December 2014 timetable changes?

 

[The Planner]

Pretty sure there is a calendar of events hidden away where the TPR and EAS are kept on the NR site.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

According to gen groups, 350 404 and 350 405 arrived through the tunnel today, one of them having been unofficially redecorated while they were still on the other side of "The Ditch".

Well, that's half the new fleet that have arrived.

 

[Eagle]

Is there anywhere publicly accessible online that lists timetable change dates? Not just for the next one (which, I can tell from the current timetables, will be 17th/18th May 2014) but also for the September and December 2014 timetable changes?

Third Sunday in May and second Sunday in December. (Not sure about September because it's not an official change.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well, that's half the new fleet that have arrived.

Also, judging by earlier posts on this thread, slightly faster than anticipated.

 

[northwichcat]

The eight coaches on the first run may be a bit of insurance in case of problems with one of the units.

Or for PR purposes. When you have journalists and VIPs on board it's no use trying to tell them how many extra seats you're providing when they are all taken.

I seem to recall the first class 185 working was a quiet Manchester-Hull service that would have been a 2 car 158 previously, opposed to a different service which would have been a busy 3 or 4 car 158.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Pretty sure there is a calendar of events hidden away where the TPR and EAS are kept on the NR site.

Thanks for the reply, there certainly is a Calendar Of Events on the Operational Rules page, with the Timetable Planning Rules and Engineering Access Statements. Unfortunately, the Calendar Of Events does not give the exact dates of the timetable changes, which is what I'm looking for.

However, you did point me in the right direction: the Network Rail site. Searching that produced a "Timetable Production Schedue" document. May 18th is joined by December 14th, May 17th 2015 and December 13th 2015.

Unfortunately the September timetable change dates are absent. The nearest it gets is a 'suggested start date' for leaf-fall timetables on 4th October in 2014 (and 5th October in 2015).

 

[harz99]

Or for PR purposes. When you have journalists and VIPs on board it's no use trying to tell them how many extra seats you're providing when they are all taken.

Agreed; in reality for pax, a 4 car 350 only offers an extra 30 or so standard seats over a 3 car 185 due to the extra toilet, slightly larger first class section and shorter carriages.

A single 350 will do little to easy the overcrowding which occurs regularly, the real benefits will come in May when all the units are in service and most anglo Scottish services are able to be formed of 2 units.

 

[Manchester77]

How many units are required to operate the Scottish services now with 185s?

 

[The Planner]

Unfortunately the September timetable change dates are absent. The nearest it gets is a 'suggested start date' for leaf-fall timetables on 4th October in 2014 (and 5th October in 2015).

They aren't official timetable dates, leaf fall is purely when a TOC wants to implement a revised timetable, there is nothing in stone to say there is a date or they have to do it. They don't even tally up with engineering periods either which is a PITA.

 

[northwichcat]

the real benefits will come in May when all the units are in service and most anglo Scottish services are able to be formed of 2 units.

I think that'll only be the case on Sundays.

Next May (Mon-Sat) there will be a full hourly Airport-Scotland service and TPE have committed to an additional North TPE service every hour and to eliminate most daytime 2 car 170 workings, so TPE will have to run most Scottish services as 4 car 350s.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

How many units are required to operate the Scottish services now with 185s?

There isn't a simple answer to that because until now the 185s have operated combined Scotland/Blackpool/Cumbria services (split at Preston) which now have to be separated out for electric working.
On top of that the Fri-Sun diagrams are different to Mon-Thur with more units on the Scotland (esp Edinburgh) routes at weekends.

It will still be mostly single units as 10 is not enough to double up more than the odd one. As a result double 185s will be used on some Scotland services to allow others to have double 350s.

 

[Des Iroman]

so because they have the same coupler they can couple together can they?
A few questions-
Are the couplers mounted at the same height?
Are the boxes the same shape?
Are the boxes mounted in the same place?
Are the pins aranged in the same order?
Is the software compatible?

That will do for starters!

Yes, yes, yes, similar, and no. Theoretically the could couple mechanically and pneumatically for assistance only, but the prong / horn thingy on top of the 185 coupler would have to be removed first!

 

[sd0733]

350404 and 350405 are currently on their way north, they were stood on the down slow at 16:15 behind 92032. I believe the train had failed as my train had a special stop order for wolverton on the up fast to drop a gb driver off to it. 404 has been grafittied quite badly towards the front as well.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

350 404 has been grafittied quite badly towards the front as well.

Will this have to be removed prior to entering service ?

 

[Class377/5]

Will this have to be removed prior to entering service ?

Yes, can't accept a unit unless it's fit for service.

 

[tbtc]

Presumably everywhere on the route is okay for an 8x20m service to stop at?

 

[Eagle]

Presumably everywhere on the route is okay for an 8x20m service to stop at?

Well all the WCML stations are obviously fine (because they all see Pendolinos stopping).

 

[Thomas6187]

350404 & 350405 are currectly sat in Trafford Park, just changing ends before going onto Ardwick