Construction progress: TPE 350/4

[Class377/5]

TPE/Siemens have released a video fly through of the 350/4

[youtube]lYxwP-DV6bg[/youtube]

And the first finished 350/4 is rumored to be expected in December according to people on Skyscraper.

Some images of the units under construction.

350410

 

[Eagle]

I see Siemens are persisting with the perverse approach of having first class in the middle of coach B.

 

[Qwerty133]

what is next to the giant bin in coach b as I hope they dont see the bin as the best feature of the trains

 

[transmanche]

TPE/Siemens have released a video fly through of the 350/4

I note it describes them as 100mph units; I had thought that (like the LM units) they would be set-up for 110mph running.

 

[Eagle]

what is next to the giant bin in coach b as I hope they dont see the bin as the best feature of the trains

Catering provision and stuff.

I note it describes them as 100mph units; I had thought that (like the LM units) they would be set-up for 110mph running.

I suspect that's an error on the part of whoever typed the description. All new 350s will be capable of 110. The video gets it right by saying the new trains are faster (presumably than a 185, which can do 100).

 

[Class377/5]

I note it describes them as 100mph units; I had thought that (like the LM units) they would be set-up for 110mph running.

The 350/3 & /4 were ordered with the same moss as the 350/1 for 110mph running.

The TPE site states:

The new trains will be able to travel at speeds up to 100mph where the track and line permit. As such journey times are expected to be at least 3 minutes quicker between Manchester and Scotland and intermediate stations. The trains have a faster acceleration to 100mph than the current class 185s. We are working with Siemens and Network Rail to enable the trains to operate at 110mph in the future. We hope to achieve this by May 2014.

Maybe its due to multiple units working 110mph not yet being cleared as initial case for 110mph was single units with multiple tested in possession. Bit of guess work but units are expected to run in 8 car formations at weekends from May 2014.

 

[MK Tom]

Are the 350/4s being built before the 350/3s? If not, are there any pictures of the /3s being built?

Seeing as a lot was made of the 'intercity layout' of the 350/4s I had hoped for a vestibule layout like the 444s. I don't see how these are internally any different from 350/1s except the 2+1 seating in first class.

 

[swt_passenger]

Seeing as a lot was made of the 'intercity layout' of the 350/4s I had hoped for a vestibule layout like the 444s. I don't see how these are internally any different from 350/1s except the 2+1 seating in first class.

Can't think why you thought that. It was always stated that they were more of the same train as LM were ordering, with only minor interior changes.

 

[Class377/5]

Are the 350/4s being built before the 350/3s? If not, are there any pictures of the /3s being built?

Seeing as a lot was made of the 'intercity layout' of the 350/4s I had hoped for a vestibule layout like the 444s. I don't see how these are internally any different from 350/1s except the 2+1 seating in first class.

The 350/4 are being built first as they are required sooner in service compared to the 350/3.

 

[jopsuk]

I see Siemens are persisting with the perverse approach of having first class in the middle of coach B.

It was BREL that started it... that's the original configuration for 317s

 

[Goatboy]

It was BREL that started it... that's the original configuration for 317s

Why do they persist with it? What benefits does it offer? It simply gives people a legitimate reason to trapse through First Class constantly.

 

[Pumbaa]

It frees up a whole vestibule for Std passengers to use... I suspect the practice is a carry over from the advent of the Guards office. They're still used in SWT and quite effectively I think. In the centre of the train, first class next to it. I imagine its a hangover from the LM 350 configuration which in turn are a hangover from the 450s...

Honestly though I'm not too fussed.

 

[MK Tom]

Having first class at the ends still causes issues for movement of standard class passengers when units run in multiple anyway. I always assumed the point of putting it where they do is so that fitting the units with corridor connections doesn't become somewhat pointless.

Thanks for the answers to the other questions.

 

[swt_passenger]

I reckon the first decision they must make is how many first class seats they want, as a proportion of the whole 4 car unit, and in the 450/350 it was presumably decided that 24 was a reasonable number. So the next question is whether or not to have two poky little 12 car sections at either end like on 377s, which are basically the same as the rest of the train, or something a bit better - which is to put all the first class section together with different seating, tables etc. Having decided that, with a 1/3 - 2/3 door layout, you are pretty much constrained to have the section between a pair of vestibules, and the best place to do that is probably in one of the two non-driving cars, or you end up isolating a small section of standard on its own - which is a complaint about the 185s I believe.

 

[northwichcat]

Having first class at the ends still causes issues for movement of standard class passengers when units run in multiple anyway.

I imagine it benefits First Class passengers as well. They'll never have to walk to the far end of the platform at any station to reach the First Class seating and an incorrect announcement or no announcement about the location of FC doesn't mean the FC passengers will have to walk from one end of the train to the other.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

On the 185s, the only isolated standard class section is the disabled area between FC and the accessible toilet.

The CGI of the new trains looks pretty good though- my only concern is the lack of vestibule doors protecting passengers from the elements during winter calls at places like Lockerbie or Oxenholme... Though I suppose they'd get in the way of the crush-loadings between Manchester and Preston!

 

[D365]

Remind me; is one not allowed to pass through a 1st Class section, even if they do not possess a suitable ticket to permit travel in that part of the carriage? Ditto walking through a stopped train without any valid ticket.

A curious thing, the differing class arrangements.

 

[swt_passenger]

Remind me; is one not allowed to pass through a 1st Class section...

It only ever seems to be enforced when you cannot get to anywhere through the first class, e.g. on FGW HSTs I believe they' routinely stop standard ticket holders crowding into first as they approach London solely to get nearer the front.

Where a train has First in the middle, or is formed of units in multiple, such as a 10 car SWT 444, I've never heard of a problem walking through First, but they won't let you stand in the area itself.

 

[jopsuk]

basically, common sense applies... if there's a legitimate reason why you may need to pass through 1st class (commonly on 450/350/317s, to get to the loo, or to move down the train to find vacant standard class seats) there's no issue; if there's no valid reason (generally, on IC trains where 1st is all at one end, Standard is all at the other and there are loos throughout) it is banned.

 

[Class377/5]

basically, common sense applies... if there's a legitimate reason why you may need to pass through 1st class (commonly on 450/350/317s, to get to the loo, or to move down the train to find vacant standard class seats) there's no issue; if there's no valid reason (generally, on IC trains where 1st is all at one end, Standard is all at the other and there are loos throughout) it is banned.

Wonder how that applies to the 350/4 with three toilets then?

 

[Brunel]

I hope the seats are a heck of a lot more comfortable than the LM seats. Just about can survive a Milton Keynes to London trip. These trains are certainly not, in my humble opinion, for going long distances. They are not Intercity Trains. In LM no power sockets, no wifi, and very loud air conditioning. Not a patch on MK3/4s

 

[northwichcat]

I hope the seats are a heck of a lot more comfortable than the LM seats. Just about can survive a Milton Keynes to London trip.

I doubt it. The 350/1s were created by accident - built initially as class 450 carriages and then had a pantograph and class 444 style seats fitted and were put in to a shared pool for Central Trains and Silverlink. The actual trains were intended for the routes that SWT use 450s on, not the likes of Liverpool-Birmingham, Northampton-London etc. And now because they are reliable and newer trains like the 380s aren't compatible with 350s, LM want more 350s and TPE are stuck with an add-on order because 10 trains isn't a big enough order by itself.

 

[Blindtraveler]

now seeing (as my username would suggest) as vidios are no use to me, would anyone care to inform me of the limmited internal changes on these units? It sounds to me as though the hot air about them being better inside than 185s was just that! What a surprise.

 

[northwichcat]

now seeing (as my username would suggest) as vidios are no use to me, would anyone care to inform me of the limmited internal changes on these units? It sounds to me as though the hot air about them being better inside than 185s was just that! What a surprise.

The internal video shows an animation of a class 350/4 which for practical purposes looks like a 350/1 in TPE livery with only a couple of differences. The animation even seems to show the same seat colour as the 350/1s.

 

[Blindtraveler]

so no extra seat padding, extra plugs, etc? Big shock! Not!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I am almost wishing the voyagers would make a return - not something I have wished before!

 

[Brunel]

I hope the seats are a heck of a lot more comfortable than the LM seats. Just about can survive a Milton Keynes to London trip.

I doubt it. The 350/1s were created by accident - built initially as class 450 carriages and then had a pantograph and class 444 style seats fitted and were put in to a shared pool for Central Trains and Silverlink. The actual trains were intended for the routes that SWT use 450s on, not the likes of Liverpool-Birmingham, Northampton-London etc. And now because they are reliable and newer trains like the 380s aren't compatible with 350s, LM want more 350s and TPE are stuck with an add-on order because 10 trains isn't a big enough order by itself.

I see. Thank you for the info. Good to see TOCs are not buying stock 'fit for purpose' but instead just because it they happen to have similar stock already! Poor effort. And down right lazy. We have to put up with suburban stock on intercity routes?! The joy of privatisation.

 

[gordonthemoron]

what about extra luggage space? I can't see the video/photos at work

 

[northwichcat]

I see. Thank you for the info. Good to see TOCs are not buying stock 'fit for purpose' but instead just because it they happen to have similar stock already! Poor effort. And down right lazy. We have to put up with suburban stock on intercity routes?! The joy of privatisation.

Well it is partly down to Siemens producing EMUs that aren't compatible with one another. LM specified in their invitation to tender something along the lines of compatibility with existing EMUs in the LM fleet, so Siemens offered more of their outdated 350s because it was the only EMU they could offer that met that requirement.

Also it's partly down to a lack of new train orders, which is down to DfT.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

what about extra luggage space?

There will be 25% more luggage space on the new trains than the class 185s currently serving this route.

http://www.tpexpress.co.uk/campaigns/new-trains/faqs/

So they'll be 5 luggage racks on the 350/4s compared to 4 on the 185s.

 

[IanXC]

I think they're really best thought of as more units, rather than higher capacity ones. So long as they remain a stop gap, rather than the long term solution then so be it.

 

[Blindtraveler]

stop diluding yourself, we'll be traveling to Manchester from far away places like Edinburgh and Glasgow and Penrith 10 years from now on these same units. Megabus have certainly not lost a customer.