Construction progress: TPE 350/4

[Solent&Wessex]

Don't suppose you have any inking of what services the 350/4s will be on bearing in mind train crew training and all that etc...

Would I be wrong in thinking that for starters, a 4 car 350/1 will allow a 6 car 185 to be used elsewhere then once all the 350/4s are available will TPE be running them as 8 car 350/4s on the Scotlands?

Also another quick query with the 350/3s AND 350/4s, will they be 110mph capable from the get go?

The first *booked* passenger working is on 30th December.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Would I be wrong in thinking that for starters, a 4 car 350/1 will allow a 6 car 185 to be used elsewhere then once all the 350/4s are available will TPE be running them as 8 car 350/4s on the Scotlands?
Also another quick query with the 350/3s AND 350/4s, will they be 110mph capable from the get go?

Yes, but the TPE ones will only be timetabled for 100mph initially, as they will interwork with 185s on the Scottish services until they are all delivered.
Cascades will only happen after the electric service is bedded in.
The only commitment is to use 4(?) extra 185s for the new Liverpool-Newcastle service in May (the Airport-Newcastle being cut back to York).

 

[Aictos]

The first *booked* passenger working is on 30th December.

Oooh, I wonder what working that might be....

 

[northwichcat]

service in May (the Airport-Newcastle being cut back to York).

TPE have quoted a number of additional seats they will provide per day so I'm not sure if that includes extra capacity on other services or not.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

TPE have quoted a number of additional seats they will provide per day so I'm not sure if that includes extra capacity on other services or not.

There looks to be significant extra capacity on the North route, especially the Hull route. All the Hull services look to be 185s or 170s in multiple, with some 6 car workings of both classes at busy times. Think there is only 1 round trip of a single 170 and that is on the quietest off peak trains. Stopping pattern all seems to change to, so all looks very radical from next May!

 

[YorkshireBear]

There looks to be significant extra capacity on the North route, especially the Hull route. All the Hull services look to be 185s or 170s in multiple, with some 6 car workings of both classes at busy times. Think there is only 1 round trip of a single 170 and that is on the quietest off peak trains. Stopping pattern all seems to change to, so all looks very radical from next May!

What happens to 170s on south route? If you know anyway...

 

[Starmill]

6 car 170s? That'll be even more people getting free rides then.

 

[jopsuk]

(going wildly off topic) it would be quite interesting the possibilities, not just at TPE, if it was easy and financially viable to convert Class 170 driving cars into intermediates.

 

[northwichcat]

What happens to 170s on south route? If you know anyway...

The TPE track access applications for May 2014 stated Manchester Airport to York, Manchester Piccadilly to Hull and South TPE would see both 185s and 170s, Scottish services would see 350s and 185s and the other routes would be exclusively 185s.
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6 car 170s? That'll be even more people getting free rides then.

On Manchester-Hull I think a free ride would be difficult by avoiding an on board inspection except possibly Selby to Hull. Huddersfield and Leeds have automated barriers while there's usually manual checks at Piccadilly on the platforms the Hull services use.

A 6 car 170 would make a trolley service very difficult on Manchester-Hull given the trolley is only available between Manchester and Leeds and there's only one intermediate calling point.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

What happens to 170s on south route? If you know anyway...

Sounds like the overnight Sheffield - Airport service is a single 170. It attaches to another at some point to make a 4 car and there is another 4 car diagram. Rest are 185s. So during the day there looks to be 2 diagrams booked for a 4 car 170 with the rest being 185s.

All could be changed I suppose, but that is what I've seen.

 

[Starmill]

The TPE track access applications for May 2014 stated Manchester Airport to York, Manchester Piccadilly to Hull and South TPE would see both 185s and 170s, Scottish services would see 350s and 185s and the other routes would be exclusively 185s.
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On Manchester-Hull I think a free ride would be difficult by avoiding an on board inspection except possibly Selby to Hull. Huddersfield and Leeds have automated barriers while there's usually manual checks at Piccadilly on the platforms the Hull services use.

A 6 car 170 would make a trolley service very difficult on Manchester-Hull given the trolley is only available between Manchester and Leeds and there's only one intermediate calling point.

Huddersfield's are very often open, the checks at Piccadilly aren't always there and are often fallible, and don't forget about Stalybridge and Dewsbury (subject to future odd stopping pattern . Selby to Hull indeed sounds the most likely - and don't go forgetting Brough!

 

[northwichcat]

don't go forgetting Brough!

Brough's not important. I recall it was to be removed as a TPE calling point when the TPE franchise started but when John Prescott said he was completely against that it remained as a calling point.

The last time I travelled to Hull the only people to board at Brough were a group of drunk middle aged women and it wasn't even midday!

 

[Class377/5]

New Rail issue states that the last 7 350/4 will be delivered roughly fortnightly in the new year with them introduced in batches in February, April and May.

350401 will spend three weeks testing, play with some 350/1 & /2 as well as run at 110mph.

 

[Crossover]

(going wildly off topic) it would be quite interesting the possibilities, not just at TPE, if it was easy and financially viable to convert Class 170 driving cars into intermediates.

Due to the lack of corridor connections, I'd imagine incredibly difficult

 

[Rhydgaled]

Due to the lack of corridor connections, I'd imagine incredibly difficult

But the isn't Turbostar/Electrostar platform modular? If so, how hard would it be to swap the cab for a inner-end or a class 172/377-style corridor-fitted cab?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

(going wildly off topic) it would be quite interesting the possibilities, not just at TPE, if it was easy and financially viable to convert Class 170 driving cars into intermediates.

Leaving them as they are is not a bad idea. Why incur cost unnecessarily when there is no need to do so.

 

[ianhr]

If the latest rumours that Hull is about to be approved for electrification are correct then presumably TPE will eventually have little need for the 170s. All the Standedge route trains can thankfully be worked by electric stock and the 185s used for the Hope Valley, and Scarborough and Middlesborough branches.

 

[YorkshireBear]

If the latest rumours that Hull is about to be approved for electrification are correct then presumably TPE will eventually have little need for the 170s. All the Standedge route trains can thankfully be worked by electric stock and the 185s used for the Hope Valley, and Scarborough and Middlesborough branches.

One of the benefits of Hull electrification is operational with only one fleet for TPE, and better inter-working available. I would if electrification occurs like to see the Selby Stopper extended.

 

[northwichcat]

If the latest rumours that Hull is about to be approved for electrification are correct then presumably TPE will eventually have little need for the 170s. All the Standedge route trains can thankfully be worked by electric stock and the 185s used for the Hope Valley, and Scarborough and Middlesborough branches.

At the present the plan is for Middlesbrough and Scarborough to lose their Manchester services. Scarborough-York is likely to be tagged on to York-Blackpool while nothing has been said about Middlesbrough so I'd assume it'd be a York to Middlesbrough service.

 

[Eagle]

One thing I have seen suggested (never officially though) is for TPE and XC to swap one path north of Northallerton, so that TPE have 2tph to Newcastle and XC run Reading to Middlesbrough.

Not sure how popular that would be though.

 

[YorkshireBear]

One thing I have seen suggested (never officially though) is for TPE and XC to swap one path north of Northallerton, so that TPE have 2tph to Newcastle and XC run Reading to Middlesbrough.

Not sure how popular that would be though.

I am not sure either, i think that is the logical way to go but many disagree.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

One thing I have seen suggested (never officially though) is for TPE and XC to swap one path north of Northallerton, so that TPE have 2tph to Newcastle and XC run Reading to Middlesbrough.

Not sure how popular that would be though.

It definitely would be with me, as I have nailed my First TPE colours to the Durham mast since I heard the bad news regarding a certain route.

 

[northwichcat]

One thing I have seen suggested (never officially though) is for TPE and XC to swap one path north of Northallerton, so that TPE have 2tph to Newcastle and XC run Reading to Middlesbrough.

Not sure how popular that would be though.

I suggested that a while back. However, looking at what Nexus have said recently they are seeing the 2nd Newcastle-Liverpool as an additional service for Newcastle opposed to replacement service.

 

[tbtc]

One thing I have seen suggested (never officially though) is for TPE and XC to swap one path north of Northallerton, so that TPE have 2tph to Newcastle and XC run Reading to Middlesbrough.

Not sure how popular that would be though.

With no hope of the XC service from Southampton/Reading to Newcastle being wholly under the wires any time soon, and little point in two XC services running York - Newcastle within a few minutes of each other an hour, I wouldn't complain if this were to be the case.

But, looking at other threads, Middlesbrough - York may be served by an extension of the current London - York "stoppers" when the ECML franchise get bi-mode IEPs.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I suggested that a while back. However, looking at what Nexus have said recently they are seeing the 2nd Newcastle-Liverpool as an additional service for Newcastle opposed to replacement service.

I think it might just be wise to electrify to Middlesbrough to be honest, (CP6) extend one of the Airport - York stoppers and also help the intermodal market which is slowly picking up in teeside.
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But, looking at other threads, Middlesbrough - York may be served by an extension of the current London - York "stoppers" when the ECML franchise get bi-mode IEPs.

That is the most advantageous intermediate step until electrification in my eyes.

 

[tbtc]

I think it might just be wise to electrify to Middlesbrough to be honest, (CP6) extend one of the Airport - York stoppers and also help the intermodal market which is slowly picking up in teeside

The "issue" I have with Middlesbrough is that there's no scope of wiring the Durham Coast line until the Sunderland - Newcastle issue is resolved with new dual voltage "trams"...

...there's no scope of electrification to Whitby or Bishop Auckland...

...so would you keep the current half hourly Redcar - Darlington service DMU run (to maintain a critical mass of DMUs on Teesside), considering it wouldn't need much electrification?

(but we are going wildly off topic here, especially when there's an "improvements in north east England" thread)

 

[YorkshireBear]

The "issue" I have with Middlesbrough is that there's no scope of wiring the Durham Coast line until the Sunderland - Newcastle issue is resolved with new dual voltage "trams"...

...there's no scope of electrification to Whitby or Bishop Auckland...

...so would you keep the current half hourly Redcar - Darlington service DMU run (to maintain a critical mass of DMUs on Teesside), considering it wouldn't need much electrification?

(but we are going wildly off topic here, especially when there's an "improvements in north east England" thread)

Hmm, will have a think and comment on the other thread.

 

[Manchester77]

That is the most advantageous intermediate step until electrification in my eyes.

Quite I've seen some suggestions of the service alternative every hour between Middlesbrough and Scarborough which could open up that area

 

[Bayum]

Any idea when 350401 will be put into FTPE colours?

 

[Class377/5]

Any idea when 350401 will be put into FTPE colours?

Depends on if they can make a business case on the 10-20k cost PER unit.

Tenders are in but nothings been said officially bar the first one may run around unbranded.