Connections with AP Tickets

[ashworth]

In the latest edition of Rail Magazine there is an article concerning tight connections with some journeys involving AP tickets and the lack of facilities availble to request journeys with a longer wait for connections. I believe that this was possible a number of years ago on the old Qjump website.

Although it is inconvenient if you miss your connection, with a through AP ticket, you would be able to use the next available train. With late night journeys involving connections into the last train, if missed, alternative transport would be provided.
Is it always that simple? Wouldn't it be good if you could request a longer connection wait to avoid the worry of this problem.

The reason for bringing up this subject is because I have been wanting to take advatage of some of NXEC offers in recent months of cheap AP tickets to destinations like Newcastle and Edinburgh, travelling from Mansfield.
However, I have not done this because on the return journey it has required a change of trains at Retford and Worksop with only a 7 minute connection time at Worksop at just after 10pm to catch the last train to Mansfield.
What would happen if I arrived at Worksop late at that time of night when the station is unstaffed to find that I have missed the last train on to Mansfield? So many delays could happen on a journey of that length that I have not risked trying it.

 

[dan_atki]

What would happen if I arrived at Worksop late at that time of night when the station is unstaffed to find that I have missed the last train on to Mansfield? So many delays could happen on a journey of that length that I have not risked trying it.

If this was happening to me and it seemed evident early on that should the connection be on time* I wouldn't make it I'd express my concern to the guard of the train at the earliest opportunity.

They can then ring control and arrange to get the train held** (if practical) or replacement transport if necessary. I would certainly not get off the train onto an unstaffed station at that time without speaking to a member of staff who can do something to prevent me being stranded. Alternatively, a help point could be utilised.

It may even be decided to allow you to travel to the nearest manned station so as to get more assistance***.

* Even if it isn't on time, the train can be held briefly whilst you and the guard check the departure board. If it has already left then action can be taken***.

** A few months ago I was delayed just enough one Sunday morning travelling from Southampton to Basingstoke to get a connection to Paignton. It was clear at Winchester I had no chance of making the connection so I went to the guard and told him I was planning on getting that service and did not wish to wait two hours for the next one. He then rang control and arranged for the connection to be held until our train arrived (possible in this case due to the timetabled wait at both Salisbury and Exeter).

*** I have once been on a fail to call, where the guard spoke to us about getting back as soon as the error was discovered. The next stop was unmanned and would have involved a 35 minute wait (the guard checked the board!) in the cold so he let us stay on a further stop to the train's terminus at a busy, staffed station. He rang control and arranged for a taxi to be authorised and accompanied us to the relevant staff who organised the transport back.

 

[glynn80]

I always wondered what would happen if you were at a completely unstaffed station and the last train of the day never arrived. It is too late to call the TOCs customer services and there is no signal box telephone easily available to reach.

What do you do?

 

[dan_atki]

I always wondered what would happen if you were at a completely unstaffed station and the last train of the day never arrived. It is too late to call the TOCs customer services and there is no signal box telephone easily available to reach.

What do you do?

I'd certainly hope a working help point is available at that station! Otherwise I'd ring National Rail Enquiries and ask them to do something (I assume they have numbers for control centres).

 

[glynn80]

Otherwise I'd ring National Rail Enquiries and ask them to do something (I assume they have numbers for control centres).

I have just found a copy of the minutes to an ATOC Retail Group meeting from 2002 and this was exactly the suggestion made there for stranded passengers. The issue actually prompted a dedicated working group and seemed to crop up in Retail Group meetings for about 3 years.

Passengers would be advised to call NRES. If they were calling from a payphone, NRES would arrange to call the customer back. If the payphone could not receive incoming calls, the customer would arrange to call back the agent they had spoken to at a specific time. NRES once in receipt of the call would firstly try to direct the passenger to a member of staff from the TOC in question or their customer help phone line. If these were not available the NRES call centre would take on the responsibility of talking to TOC Control offices, so that the TOC could take a decision on what action could be taken.

The issue actually stemmed from a real life example highlighted in the minutes as follows:

[NRES Manager, Name Removed] said that NRES was becoming increasingly concerned about the way in which stranded passengers were being treated. He recalled that in January 2002, NRES Scheme Management Group and Retail Group had jointly agreed how telephone calls from stranded passengers should be handled, the procedure being that NRES would firstly try to direct the passenger to a member of staff or a customer help phone line. Only if these were not available would the NRES call centre take on the responsibility of talking to TOC Control offices, so that a TOC decision on what needed to be done could be taken. This procedure has never been fully implemented as it has taken a considerable time for NRES to assemble a database of TOC contacts. A recent incident has highlighted that there is still a problem when TOCs appear unwilling to take on the responsibility for dealing with stranded passengers. This particular incident was dealt with by NRES ordering a taxi, however it is not acceptable that Call Centres should pick up the cost.

Retail Group agreed that it was a TOC responsibility to deal with stranded passengers. They said that this did not just involve NRES but also TOC staff who had face to face dealings with passengers. They suggested that they should involve NRES Call Centre Suppliers to come up with a simple procedure for dealing with stranded passengers which would be accepted by all TOCs.

 

[paul1609]

Hmm is this the NRES thats now in Mumbai?
Presumably they'd send out one of these?
http://www.freshofftheblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/indian-taxi.jpg

 

[Mojo]

Depends on the type of Help points though - most ones I use put you through to an automated voice with train information and the "emergency" button dials 999...

 

[dan_atki]

Good to see there is a proper practice in place there now, then! I certainly hope ATOC claimed the cost of the taxi back off the relevant TOC in that instance!

For me, at least, calling NRES is the only logical thing to do at such a time the TOC's Customer Service department is closed and there is no other communication with the TOC.

As a telephone number it seems to be drilled into the passenger wherever they look (even handily on ticket wallets!). The fact it is also a 24 hour service helps matters greatly in such instances! They would, in essence, be the only rail related people you could speak to so I'm glad they would be forced to take action - saves me forcing them if ever I'm in such a situation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Depends on the type of Help points though - most ones I use put you through to an automated voice with train information and the "emergency" button dials 999...

In which case the emergency operator should have a number for the relevant TOC control centre* to inform them I am stranded .

If I ever happen to be in such a situation, TOCs should make no bones that I will use whatever station communication equipment I legally have access to in order to speak to someone to get the situation rectified, even if this means an 'Emergency Telephone' on the platform.

There are some stations I wouldn't hang around in after dark (even though dark is 1700 in January) so to be faced with the prospect of being stranded there late at night... No, ta.

*I'd assume this is a condition of having the line directly answered by the emergency services.

 

[ashworth]

I think this is another situation like so many discussed on this type of forum.
All of these solutions are perhaps OK and not so worrying for the type of people who use this forum who are generally regular experienced rail travellers. It is the occasional traveller such as elderly people who are caught out when problems like this occur.

Back to my original point. It would make thing less worrying if passengers were able to a request a longer connection time for some AP journeys.

 

[krus_aragon]

Back to my original point. It would make thing less worrying if passengers were able to a request a longer connection time for some AP journeys.

You can ask NRE to extend transfer times up to two hours on their advanced search: I don't know if this is transferred to retailers' websites correctly.

 

[glynn80]

You can ask NRE to extend transfer times up to two hours on their advanced search: I don't know if this is transferred to retailers' websites correctly.

It doesn't unfortunately. The feature used to be available on the old QJump website but since its merger with theTrainline, it no longer appears as an option.

 

[yorkie]

You can ask NRE to extend transfer times up to two hours on their advanced search: I don't know if this is transferred to retailers' websites correctly.

As Glynn80 says it doesn't, but there is an argument to say that if you have "& Connections" tickets, it says that they are valid with a reservations or other valid travel itinerary for which surely the NR site must qualify as being able to produce. Now, if you get non-reservable trains, the recommended trains are not shown anywhere in the documentation provided on your ticket. A case was made a few months ago in a topic about FGW connecting services that the National Rail website can be used to produce a valid travel itinerary, so if you printed this off and brought it with you, it could be useful in those circumstances.

 

[monkey]

...I was wondering. when I travel between and newcastle and burley park - the cheapest ticke is via harrogate line, from york. it says on the ticket nxec and connections, but as northern doesn't have any reservations, you don't get a seat reaservation for that portion of the journey. does that mean I can take any train from york, even a faster xc, tpx one to leeds, and then get a connection at leeds to burley park?

I mean most of the time it doesn't take much less to make a difference as it means end up waiting for twice at a station for a connection instead of once, but was just wondering...