Connections at Ellesmere Port

[Old Yard Dog]

There are just two trains a day from Ellesmere Port to Helsby (SuX). The first leaves at 0633, 5 mins before the first connection from Liverpool arrives at 0638. The second leaves at 1906, 6 mins after the scheduled 1900 arrival from Liverpool.

In the last 12 weeks, the morning train has been cancelled on 31 occasions and the evening train 44 times. No replacement buses are provided.

Yesterday the 1900 connecting train from Liverpool was 9 minutes late thanks to peak-hour congestion around the loop. It often is. The 1906 did not wait. There was at least one passenger hoping to make the connection. Ellesmere Port station is only staffed 0530 to 1400 so no help was available. The last no 2 bus to Helsby leaves at 1759.

It it any wonder that Ince & Elton, the only open intermediate station on the line, was the 3rd worst nationally in the latest ORR station usage statistics.

 

[Kite159]

There was at least one passenger hoping to make the connection

Genuine passenger or a basher out to ride the line?

 

[saismee]

Genuine passenger or a basher out to ride the line?

Does it really make any difference? They had a valid ticket for the connection and riding a specific train line is still a valid use.

 

[Llandudno]

There are just two trains a day from Ellesmere Port to Helsby (SuX). The first leaves at 0633, 5 mins before the first connection from Liverpool arrives at 0638. The second leaves at 1906, 6 mins after the scheduled 1900 arrival from Liverpool.

In the last 12 weeks, the morning train has been cancelled on 31 occasions and the evening train 44 times. No replacement buses are provided.

Yesterday the 1900 connecting train from Liverpool was 9 minutes late thanks to peak-hour congestion around the loop. It often is. The 1906 did not wait. There was at least one passenger hoping to make the connection. Ellesmere Port station is only staffed 0530 to 1400 so no help was available. The last no 2 bus to Helsby leaves at 1759.

It it any wonder that Ince & Elton, the only open intermediate station on the line, was the 3rd worst nationally in the latest ORR station usage statistics.

Deliberately timed to ensure that no passengers use the service, so no one inconvenienced when/if the train doesn’t run and they can eventually get round to closing the line completely, or running one train once a week instead.

The line is a basket case and I very much doubt erseyrail have any interest in running battery 777s on the route to cart fresh air.

 

[David Bullock]

Deliberately timed to ensure that no passengers use the service, so no one inconvenienced when/if the train doesn’t run and they can eventually get round to closing the line completely, or running one train once a week instead.

The line is a basket case and I very much doubt erseyrail have any interest in running battery 777s on the route to cart fresh air.

I think the line definitely has potential, even an hourly service from hooton-helsby would link Ellesmere Port up quite nicely with services to John Lennon Airport, Manchester and Warrington. Provided the connections were well timed.

It would require a more joined up approach to transport than Cheshire West seem to be able to manage, but it could be reasonably well used in the right circumstances

 

[Old Yard Dog]

The "line" isn't a basket case, it's the "service on the line" that is.

 

[Djgr]

I think the line definitely has potential, even an hourly service from hooton-helsby would link Ellesmere Port up quite nicely with services to John Lennon Airport, Manchester and Warrington. Provided the connections were well timed.

It would require a more joined up approach to transport than Cheshire West seem to be able to manage, but it could be reasonably well used in the right circumstances

It doesn't help that the Ellesmere Port Merseyrail branch isn't exactly buzzing with passengers.

Since Hooton to Chester/Ellesmere Port were electrified (early 90s) the emphasis has increasingly become on the heavy Chester traffic.

 

[BeijingDave]

I think the line definitely has potential, even an hourly service from hooton-helsby would link Ellesmere Port up quite nicely with services to John Lennon Airport, Manchester and Warrington. Provided the connections were well timed.

It would require a more joined up approach to transport than Cheshire West seem to be able to manage, but it could be reasonably well used in the right circumstances

Definitely has potential if the Cheshire Oaks market can be tapped into with a better service from the east to Ellesmere Port and something like frequent shuttle buses.

Cheshire Oaks attracts plenty of people from as far away asthe West Midlands and Yorkshire, presumably all driving, you can hear the accents if you walk around any afternoon.

 

[Djgr]

Definitely has potential if the Cheshire Oaks market can be tapped into with a better service from the east to Ellesmere Port and something like frequent shuttle buses.

Cheshire Oaks attracts plenty of people from as far away asthe West Midlands and Yorkshire, presumably all driving, you can hear the accents if you walk around any afternoon.

Anyone local knows to swerve it at the weekend!

 

[30907]

Definitely has potential if the Cheshire Oaks market can be tapped into with a better service from the east to Ellesmere Port and something like frequent shuttle buses.

Cheshire Oaks attracts plenty of people from as far away asthe West Midlands and Yorkshire, presumably all driving, you can hear the accents if you walk around any afternoon.

But you would run a bus direct from Helsby rather than making people change.
Or Chester if you wanted West Mids traffic.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Definitely has potential if the Cheshire Oaks market can be tapped into with a better service from the east to Ellesmere Port and something like frequent shuttle buses.

Cheshire Oaks attracts plenty of people from as far away asthe West Midlands and Yorkshire, presumably all driving, you can hear the accents if you walk around any afternoon.

If people are traveling from as far afield as the Midlands the likelihood is they will be intending to buy quite a lot of stuff and won't want to cart it back on public transport when they can just chuck it in their car boot. 3 trains and a bus to get there from Birmingham isn't going to entice many either.

 

[Kite159]

It doesn't help that the Ellesmere Port Merseyrail branch isn't exactly buzzing with passengers.

Since Hooton to Chester/Ellesmere Port were electrified (early 90s) the emphasis has increasingly become on the heavy Chester traffic.

Usage is probably downplayed by the number of passengers whom think payment is optional, and suddenly decide "actually I want this stop" when they spot Revenue Protection doing a check.

 

[Spaceship323]

The 1906 did not wait. There was at least one passenger hoping to make the connection.

When I caught it last month I was at Ellesmere Port at 1830 to ensure an easy connection if it ran, with options to get back to Chester if it didn't, I'm sure most other enthusiasts would rather be safe than sorry! I'd personally never risk such a tight connection

 

[Topological]

If people are traveling from as far afield as the Midlands the likelihood is they will be intending to buy quite a lot of stuff and won't want to cart it back on public transport when they can just chuck it in their car boot. 3 trains and a bus to get there from Birmingham isn't going to entice many either.

Should not underestimate the student market from Manchester...

However, there are buses (I think) and Chester to Cheshire Oaks works well using the service buses from outside the station. As others mention, buses from Frodsham or Helsby would work without needing an extra train.

In a fantasy tri-mode world a Birkenhead to Manchester via Ellesmere Port and Warrington would be nice, but realistically that won't work.

It seems like a long time of Northern accepting some hefty delay repay claims as a price worth paying to save on running the service at times of stretched resource.

 

[WirralLine]

Its a shame the short lived Ellesmere Port to Leeds service was axed before it had chance to pick up. A former in law of mine used it regularly for business in Manchester and Leeds and wasn't alone using it, it just didn't get time to build a customer Base before it was axed.

 

[gray1404]

In these circumstances phone the Northern customer experience centre, explain the situation and ask them to send a taxi.

 

[Starmill]

When I caught it last month I was at Ellesmere Port at 1830 to ensure an easy connection if it ran, with options to get back to Chester if it didn't, I'm sure most other enthusiasts would rather be safe than sorry! I'd personally never risk such a tight connection

Of course, enthusiasts would see it that way. But most people would just book a ticket online and assume that meant they'd know they're coming and to wait for a few minutes.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

As a local, I used to use the line regularly in the 1980s to get to Manchester and Yorkshire both for leisure and work. My usage continued after the electrification from Hooton to Ellesmere Port when I would change at Helsby or Earlestown. But as the service has been whittled down over the years to next to nothing, this has become harder and harder. But I remember catching the early morning through train to Leeds not all that long ago to get to Headingley for an 11 am start.

With a campaigning/monitoring interest in the line, I'd been planning to use the 1906 for months for my occasional evening trips into Chester, changing at Helsby, but have been thwarted by Northern's very frequent cancellations and the late running of the Merseyrail connection due in at 1900. I would probably have had to book an "any permitted" return to Frodsham, where the 1906 doesn't even stop (why??) as there is no "any permitted" return from Little Sutton to Helsby. The last occasion was Thursday when the ME was so late that I didn't bother trying. I found out that the connection hadn't been held by speaking to the ME conductor on its return to Hooton.

Anyway my luck changed yesterday and I got to do the evening train in the westbound direction almost as a "normal". After the Salford City vs Fleetwood Town game, I made the 1727 stopper from Manchester Victoria to Liverpool LS by the skin of my teeth. Surprisingly it was almost empty. This connected with a TfW trian to Helsby at Newton-le-Willows.

Unsurprisingly I was the only passenger on the two-car class 150 to Ellesmere Port where one passenger boarded for the return journey. The ME had made the connection on this occasion and was parked in the opposite platform for the final leg of my journey.


View attachment 173070

 

[frodshamfella]

A few years back, there were two returns over the line mid afternoon. I used this quite frequently, it was much more reliable than the evening service offered now.
Surely the best option would be for Merseyrail to extend ops to Ince and Elton and Helsby. Northern seem to have no interest in the line

 

[Old Yard Dog]

The 1906 stops everywhere between Ellesmere Port & Lime Street (via Warrington BQ) except Frodsham (& of course Stanlow & Thornton). Any idea why? Frodsham is just about the only place en route with any sort of night time economy!

 

[frodshamfella]

The 1906 stops everywhere between Ellesmere Port & Lime Street (via Warrington BQ) except Frodsham (& of course Stanlow & Thornton). Any idea why? Frodsham is just about the only place en route with any sort of night time economy!

It doesn't make much sense. This was also the case when there were 2 mid afternoon services. The last departure ex E Port, was to Warrington BQ from memory, but did not call at Frodsham.

 

[Llandudno]

The 1906 stops everywhere between Ellesmere Port & Lime Street (via Warrington BQ) except Frodsham (& of course Stanlow & Thornton). Any idea why? Frodsham is just about the only place en route with any sort of night time economy!

Deliberate ploy to ensure that virtually no one uses the service, so when it is routinely cancelled very few people are inconvenienced.