Connections across London

[mullin]

Hey all,

I'm planning on booking a trip using advance tickets from Portsmouth Harbour to Birmingham via London for June, just I'm wondering if I'm leaving a large enough connection time or if I'll be cutting it fine?

Looking at Megatrain from Portsmouth at 11:45 (Arriving at Waterloo at 13:23). I've an Oyster card so won't need to buy a ticket or anything for the tube, but I want to ideally be on the last 'cheap' advance ticket (14:03 EUS - BHM). Would you say 30 minutes is enough to complete the tube journey??

Thanks in advance!

 

[SS4]

Yes

That will be fine - you can take a direct tube via the Northern line

 

[yorkie]

You're cutting it fine, officially, and if the Megatrain is late then you are relying on goodwill and getting your ticket endorsed by friendly staff, otherwise it's a brand new Euston to Birmingham ticket!

The minimum connection times for Cross London Transfers are defined in the National Rail Timetable (page 44 of the current timetable), Waterloo to Euston is 53 minutes. Of course, it can be done in less, and if your train is on time, then barring a major farce on the tube, you will make it in good time. But if you are late you are NOT covered, as it's not a "valid connection".

If there's any hint of delays on the Northern Line, take the Bakerloo to Oxford Circus and change there for the Victoria Line. That's almost as good as a direct train as the connection at Oxford Circus is cross-platform.

 

[wintonian]

It normally takes me 20 - 25min on the Northern line, I usually leave at least an hour and generally find I have time to go to M&S and a quick coffee in the lounge if leaving Euston in 1st.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Concur with Yorkie. The minimum cross London transfer time for a journey via London Underground from Waterloo to Euston is indeed 53 minutes.

See page 44 (of 48) on the attached link.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/3828.aspx

 

[Oracle]

I have done that trip myself and it took absolutely no time but that was early in the morning. The 53-minute transfer sounds about right to be safe.

 

[LexyBoy]

I'd say that most likely you'll be fine*, but as yorkie has said if you do miss your Euston train, you are officially stuffed. That said, if you're late due to significant disruption on the Tube, I'm pretty sure you'd be allowed on the next train since you probably wouldn’t be asked about your previous journey. If your train into Waterloo were delayed, then staff at Euston could point out that you didn’t have a valid connection anyway so they are under no obligation to carry you.

I guess your decision should be based on the potential savings by getting the trains you have picked out. If the difference between these trains and those with a longer connection in London is more than the cost of a walk-on LM or Chiltern fare then definitely go for it – if you miss your train and aren’t let onto the next, then you’ve still saved even with a new ticket.

*assuming you are familiar with that journey

 

[JoeGJ1984]

I don't know if you plan on travelling in the weekend, but there will always be closures on London Underground during weekends - it might make it difficult if you have your advance tickets and then discover that the section of the Northern Line you need is closed (you probably can't tell now though). What would the position be with advance tickets in that situation provided you leave the official minimum connection time (in this case 53 minutes)?

 

[SS4]

TfL do a six month closure list: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/livetravelnews/realtime/tube/track-closures.pdf

Naturally it's subject to change but usually good.

 

[mullin]

Hmmm think I'm going to see if I can juggle my plans around - I've only ever done that tube journey once before so can't say I really know it.

Trying to get to PBL for as cheap as possible using first class (after the Isle of Wight festival), so was originally thinking Eus --> Bhm (£24.30 YPR). Kill a couple of hours in the first class lounge at Birmingham and some decent coffee before going Bhm to Pbl (via manc (standard £7.90)).

Off to see what else I can find now... after adding a few comments to the Wigan topic about the ticket checks...

 

[bb21]

That said, if you're late due to significant disruption on the Tube, I'm pretty sure you'd be allowed on the next train since you probably wouldn’t be asked about your previous journey.

I'd be a bit more careful. If the difference between a valid and invalid connection is no more than a few quid, I'd play it safe.

I had a situation with TfL once, massive delays on the Northern coming in from High Barnet, ended up missing AP booking at Waterloo by all of 1 minute. No one at Waterloo willing to help, even though they confirmed with TfL of the delay. So had to buy a new ticket for £24.

Complained to TfL afterwards. Result? A refund of the single journey fare of £4, as they said they couldn't be held responsible for further losses.

 

[LexyBoy]

I'd be a bit more careful. If the difference between a valid and invalid connection is no more than a few quid, I'd play it safe.

Indeed - hence my suggestion to consider the cost of a (cheap) walk on fare vs. the extra cost of a valid connection. I was just saying that if the Tube has big problems (which is not very likely) then staff at Euston are likely to accept a delay on the Underground as a reason for missed connection since there will be lots of other people in the same situation.

I had a situation with TfL once, massive delays on the Northern coming in from High Barnet, ended up missing AP booking at Waterloo by all of 1 minute. No one at Waterloo willing to help, even though they confirmed with TfL of the delay. So had to buy a new ticket for £24.

Complained to TfL afterwards. Result? A refund of the single journey fare of £4, as they said they couldn't be held responsible for further losses.

Why not complain to SWT? Since you missed your train due to a late running connection, you should have been allowed on the train - they were in the wrong making you buy a new ticket.

 

[yorkie]

I had a situation with TfL once, massive delays on the Northern coming in from High Barnet, ended up missing AP booking at Waterloo by all of 1 minute. No one at Waterloo willing to help, even though they confirmed with TfL of the delay. So had to buy a new ticket for £24.

Depending on the exact circumstances, I would have boarded the next available train anyway, if I thought it was appropriate I would have sought the guard, if the answer was "no" I'd have either got the train anyway, getting a UPFN if necessary (only if I absolutely 100% knew I was in the right and had to get that train) or, got the the next train.

In my experience guards are far more likely to be reasonable than ticket office staff, when you need 'discretion' to be shown. But if you are in the right then you don't need any 'endorsements' or 'permission' from the ticket office staff anyway as the conditions say that "if delays occur while travelling you can take a later train"

That said, this may not apply to your specific circumstances, e.g. if you didn't adhere to the minimum connection time. However if you started your journey at High Barnet then that probably does muddy the waters a bit.

 

[bb21]

Depending on the exact circumstances, I would have boarded the next available train anyway, if I thought it was appropriate I would have sought the guard, if the answer was "no" I'd have either got the train anyway, getting a UPFN if necessary (only if I absolutely 100% knew I was in the right and had to get that train) or, got the the next train.

In my experience guards are far more likely to be reasonable than ticket office staff, when you need 'discretion' to be shown. But if you are in the right then you don't need any 'endorsements' or 'permission' from the ticket office staff anyway as the conditions say that "if delays occur while travelling you can take a later train"

That said, this may not apply to your specific circumstances, e.g. if you didn't adhere to the minimum connection time. However if you started your journey at High Barnet then that probably does muddy the waters a bit.

It wasn't a valid connection, hence the dilemma I was in and my subsequent advice to the OP. Adhering to the minimum connection time might well make all the difference here.

Trouble is, I had problems at the barrier and had I not bought a new ticket, I wouldn't have been given the chance to board and speak to the guard at all.

That's why we all love barriers.

 

[mullin]

Think i'm decided now. All this talk of minimum connections. Despite the outward fare only being £8.25, I think i'm going to be safer with a simple walk up fare of 40 odd quid, at least that way I can travel via Wigan for a quicker route and can travel on whatever train I like. Shall have to do without first class for the journey back - ah well

 

[LexyBoy]

The safe option

Will that just be a walk on for the return trip, or for the outbound too? I assume a return is the same price as a single.

For £8 I'd see it as a gamble- there's a chance of making the train and saving thirty-odd quid. I'd base my choice on the chances of the gamble paying off- which I'd say are pretty good, but I understand if you want to play safe!

 

[bb21]

Think i'm decided now. All this talk of minimum connections. Despite the outward fare only being £8.25, I think i'm going to be safer with a simple walk up fare of 40 odd quid, at least that way I can travel via Wigan for a quicker route and can travel on whatever train I like. Shall have to do without first class for the journey back - ah well

Assuming that you have now decided on a single London - Parbold (SVS £45.55) with railcard discount, why not try looking around the booking sites for a cheap Advance ticket Parbold - London? If you can find a cheap enough ticket for any time within a month before your London - Parbold journey, you can then snap up the fully flexible SVH fare for the return leg which is only £23.10, hence potentially making yourself a decent saving. You don't have to travel the outbound journey, just use the return portion.

The cheapest Advance fare for the flow with railcard discount is £5.95, so you could potentially get yourself a return journey (using only one direction) for a massive £16.50 LESS than you would pay for a single.

Plus if you have a railcard, as the flow is priced by Virgin, you have no peak time travel restriction on any Virgin Trains operated journeys.

Am I making any sense?

 

[mullin]

Sorry, totally confused. although that could be my fault. By walk on ticket I meant an off peak return letting me travel down on any train mid afternoon and come back on any train a few days later in the afternoon / evening...

 

[bb21]

Do you mean your fares query is for a return trip? Sorry I understood it from your original post as a single trip. Ignore my advice above for now and they're null and void. I'll see what else I can find tomorrow