Connection missed can I claim?

[Merseysider]

TPE, LM and GA staff have confirmed they have a policy of allowing appropriate connecting trains too.

And Virgin Trains!

 

[alastair]

Chiltern and FGW both offer counted place reservations as well (in FGW's case on "Turbo" routes where Advance tickets are available). Chiltern also offer conventional "allocated seat" reservations where Business Zone tickets/upgrades are purchased in advance.

in the case of FGW,not always. I have just bought an advance from Guildford to Bristol via Reading. Although I have a reservation from Reading to Bristol,there is no counted place from Guildford to Reading which I assume means I can use any reasonable train on that sector.

 

[Tetchytyke]

TPE, LM and GA staff have confirmed they have a policy of allowing appropriate connecting trains too.

On another thread today the poster has said Greater Anglia will expect you to take your booked train.

I don't think appropriate connecting trains could be much clearer; clearly in this case the delayed 1250 was very much appropriate.

But I think the key word there is "delayed", as when your booked train is delayed you can take the next appropriate train. I don't think the OP could have boarded the 1250 had everything been running to time.

The issue is that some TOCs are not strictly enforcing the rules, rules which are very very clear. They're being sensible, being tied to a booked train from Bradford to Leeds is ludicrous. But you might not want to push too hard, as I doubt the "clarity" you want is the "clarity" you will get.

 

[GuitarWizard]

My ticket was an advanced ticket. The validity on the ticket was BOOKDTRAINONLY. I didn't have a reserved coach or seat from WFJ to MKC though.

The connection only gave me something like 12 minutes to get anyway which is nothing and when the train is delayed in this case it's impossible. I reached the bottom of the stairs and the train pulled away. I can't remember the exact timings but it was nowhere enough to get the train.

Now if I got an earlier train to MKC I wouldn't of had a valid ticket as the ticket says Valid at 13:06 HOURS.

I submitted a claim to London Midlands so lets see what happens

 

[bb21]

I don't think personally you would have any problem with your claim for the reasons you stated, but for future reference, it may be better to seek help from station staff in these situations.

 

[maniacmartin]

And Virgin Trains!

This twitter link says that they allow any appropriate connecting train, but it does not say what an appropriate connecting train is, so in my opinion doesn't add anything to the debate.

 

[Merseysider]

This twitter link says that they allow any appropriate connecting train, but it does not say what an appropriate connecting train is, so in my opinion doesn't add anything to the debate.

...a train that connects with the main leg of the journey?

Update: "appropriate connecting train" defined by Virgin, the definitive source for all Virgin related matters.

Any connecting service within reason.

Anyway, this is at risk of veering OT.

 

[yorkie]

I don't think personally you would have any problem with your claim for the reasons you stated, but for future reference, it may be better to seek help from station staff in these situations.

Agreed.

On another thread today the poster has said Greater Anglia will expect you to take your booked train.

I'd be shocked if the staff at Tottenham Hale told you to wait there for ages. Has that actually happened?

In the link posted above by JakeF, Greater Anglia agreed with Virgin Trains and said you can take any appropriate connecting service.

But I think the key word there is "delayed", as when your booked train is delayed you can take the next appropriate train. I don't think the OP could have boarded the 1250 had everything been running to time.

We'll have to agree to disagree, but if the 1306 has the same status as the booked Virgin Train (which isn't what the T&Cs say), then delays of around 15 minutes wouldn't automatically allow you to take an alternative train. So do you agree it doesn't have equal status, as at the end of the day it is a connecting train?

The issue is that some TOCs are not strictly enforcing the rules, rules which are very very clear. They're being sensible, being tied to a booked train from Bradford to Leeds is ludicrous. But you might not want to push too hard, as I doubt the "clarity" you want is the "clarity" you will get.

I do not agree the rules are clear, otherwise we'd not be having this debate. The rules are contradictory, but where it's unclear, the rule that favours the passenger should prevail in my opinion. I also do not believe what's printed on a reservation coupon can over-ride the T&Cs agreed to when the ticket is bought.

I do agree it is "ludicrous" to be tied to specific trains for connections such as Bradford to Leeds, and I don't see Watford Jn to Milton Keynes on a similarly non-InterCity connecting TOC to be materially different, and the rolling stock is broadly similar in quality and ambience (Northern 333 vs LM 350).

Clarity has been given on Twitter by LM, VT and GE and in all cases was that you can take "any" appropriate connecting train.

I do not agree with an interpretation that the word "any" means "just one".

 

[Merseysider]

Well I've got a definitive answer here. Asked about a journey (VT & Connections), Virgin have stated

@VirginTrains: @jakefassam As long as you get the VT bit from SPT, you can use any service on the other bits. ^KW

The 'other bit' in question was a connecting Virgin service 20 minutes earlier. For which mandatory place reservations are given, might I add.

 

[yorkie]

You will not get a consistent answer among all railway staff, but I am yet to hear of anyone being denied a common sense approach or had anyone been told an appropriate train was not appropriate, and I can't see the TOCs wanting this to go to court either.

 

[Merseysider]

You will not get a consistent answer among all railway staff, but I am yet to hear of anyone being denied a common sense approach or had anyone been told an appropriate train was not appropriate, and I can't see the TOCs wanting this to go to court either.

Completely agree. Up for debating what an appropriate connecting bus is?

 

[yorkie]

Completely agree. Up for debating what an appropriate connecting bus is?

Indeed.

I wonder if someone may say that it is only valid on "trains" so you are forced to never complete your journey, unable to complete it or finish short because that wouldn't be permitted either....

(Sometimes you have to take a step back and look at the bigger picture!)

 

[GuitarWizard]

I don't think personally you would have any problem with your claim for the reasons you stated, but for future reference, it may be better to seek help from station staff in these situations.

I'm a frequent traveler it was very clear the next train was in an hour I doubt they would be able to help. Finding staff at station is very difficult too.

Connection are always so tight. It would make more sense to have put me on the one before, instead they put you on the one that gives you the least time

 

[Hadders]

Connection are always so tight.

Many would disagree with that and, of course, the flip side to that would be to significantly increase journey times.

I agree that in some cases it makes sense to allow longer for connections and on most booking sites you are able to request an itinerary with a longer connection time.

 

[PermitToTravel]

If you book in person at a ticket office it'll cost the same and you can ask them to put you on an earlier connecting train

 

[SickyNicky]

If you want extra connection time, as Hadders says, many booking engines have a facility to allow that. Mine does, certainly. On split tickets, many people prefer longer changes than having an argument with station staff who don't know/understand the advance fares rules, or just want to make up the rules themselves.

 

[bb21]

I'm a frequent traveler it was very clear the next train was in an hour I doubt they would be able to help.

What do you mean? In this case it was quite likely that you would have been allowed on an earlier service had you sought advice from station staff so as to avoid missing your connection. That is unless you prefer to be late and compensated rather than be on time with no compensation (not saying you are one of those people but these people do exist).

Most railway staff are reasonable people, contrary to what some press would have us believe, and would rather get passengers to their destination with minimal inconvenience as possible.

Finding staff at station is very difficult too.

Staff can normally be found fairly easily, if you know where to look. I know of a few small staffed stations where one can struggle to locate them, but that is in a minority. You also have the option of the help points at many stations many of whom can offer good advice.

Connection are always so tight. It would make more sense to have put me on the one before, instead they put you on the one that gives you the least time

Booking engines should be able to offer you itineraries that have an extended interchange time, again the trick is knowing where to look. For example, on WebTIS (East Coast, Southern, Redspottedhanky, Chiltern, FGW, etc), the option is available if you use the "Text only" version.

 

[yorkie]

I'm a frequent traveler it was very clear the next train was in an hour I doubt they would be able to help. Finding staff at station is very difficult too.

The connecting trains from Watford Jn to Milton Keynes Central are frequent. Staff at Watford Jn should be relatively easy to find, but you could also ask the Train Guard if in doubt (though finding them may be tricky on an 8 or 12 car service).

Connection are always so tight. It would make more sense to have put me on the one before, instead they put you on the one that gives you the least time

The way the booking engines work is to minimise journey time by specifying the last connecting train that's a valid connection.

LM are not interested (as evidenced on Twitter) in forcing passengers to take specific trains for the short journey between Watford Jn and MKC (there are no Advance fares between these stations) and I am certain no-one at LM would want to create a delay liability for the Company by in any way forcing you to take a delayed connecting train that did not connect with your booked Virgin train.

Until LM started offering their own Advance fares (for longer journeys - not applicable for the short hop you were doing on LM) you would not have been issued with a reservation coupon. The problem is that when they started doing their own Advance fares, the system the rail industry uses for Advance fares also issues a reservation coupon for the connecting service. Unfortunately this prints as as "mandatory" reservation coupon, giving the impression that you must take a specific train. I do not believe that to be intentional but is an unfortunate by-product of LM selling their own Advance fares.

 

[Class377]

Although, as we've seen on here, if enthusiasts with a pretty decent knowledge of ticketing can't find a consensus, it's not looking good for Mr 1-journey-a-year on the platform!