Connecting between separate advance tickets

[Zamracene749]

I'm pretty certain this has been discussed before, but I can't find the thread so apologies but-

Travelling on two independent advance tickets, allowing adequate time for transfers, will I be scuppered if the first service arrives at the interchange station too late to catch the second? Or will I be allowed to use the next available service?

Planned journey is Cardiff central to Bristol parkway arrive 11.59, then 12.40 Bristol parkway to Durham on a sunday. Clearly I don't want to risk getting chinged for a hefty priced single Bristol to Durham!

PS if I turn up at Bristol parkway an hour earlier on the 10.59, is there a pub/cafe nearby to kill the time in?

Cheers

 

[yorkie]

No problem! Apologies to everyone who has read this before, but here is my standard advice on combining tickets and whether or not you are 'covered' in the event of delays...

This has been done to death on this forum but as plenty has been said about it before, I recommend doing a search (the hyperlinks that follow are a result of a quick search I have done just now; there are many more examples of this being discussed). I suggest in particular reading this (which I totally agree with), and my experiences (mentioned here among other places) are in accordance with what I expect to happen. A word of warning some rail staff will have their own opinion that is in no way based on what the rules say, they then state it as fact (example) so be prepared to encounter this. But just because you are on one ticket does not mean that rail staff will get you to your destination without a fight, as this example demonstrates. If they are going to make excuses, then it can be about anything, the main thing is to be aware of the rules and your rights.

I helped someone who was wrongly issued an Unpaid Fare Notice (note: never pay up front in such a circumstance; it's much harder to get the money back than if they have to chase you) for being on a combination of Advance tickets for one journey, and getting a later train on the second ticket, due to an earlier delay when the guard did not correctly adhere to the rules. Not only was the UPFN quashed but the guard was given suitable advice by the company concerned. I am also armed with an excellent quote from someone about as high up as you can get, that is sufficient to get someone out of that situation.

Of course, you must allow sufficient interchange time between trains. I would strongly advising plenty more than the absolute minimum, although on a contractual point of view the absolute minimum should be fine, but some of the minimum interchange times are not clear. The more time you allow, the more likely staff will deem it reasonable, and if staff deem something reasonable then the issue of whether you are entitled to it may not arise, this can avoid potential arguments, disputes and stress.

I've never had a problem, out of hundreds of journeys and I very rarely buy one ticket from origin to destination, instead I either buy further (and finish short) or a rover/ranger, or a combination of tickets.

 

[moonrakerz]

http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/results.shtml/tr/586

 

[Flamingo]

Had a nice meal in a pub a few hundred yards from BPW last summer. The actual station Cafe has got a good view from it, if you are a spotter.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I'm pretty certain this has been discussed before, but I can't find the thread so apologies but-

Travelling on two independent advance tickets, allowing adequate time for transfers, will I be scuppered if the first service arrives at the interchange station too late to catch the second? Or will I be allowed to use the next available service?

Planned journey is Cardiff central to Bristol parkway arrive 11.59, then 12.40 Bristol parkway to Durham on a sunday. Clearly I don't want to risk getting chinged for a hefty priced single Bristol to Durham!....

As Yorkie says, it's been done to death quite a few times, I don't think you would encounter too many problems in reality, however I believe it would be wrong of the forum to advise that you are always fine, I believe there is a condition of the Advance ticket which would leave you with a 'hefty fare' to pay if the guard/staff choose(s) to apply it.

The condition I refer to basically says you must be at the departure station, as printed on your ticket, in good time to catch your train, and that if you miss your first booked train for any reason, you must purchase a new ticket.

For me it's as clear as a bright sunny day, but some, including Yorkie, believe it does not apply to the second ticket for some reason (delays during travel IIRC).

To sum my opinion up into a simple statement, condition 19 allows you to use two or more tickets for one journey provided they are valid for the entire journey, but if you don't obey the conditions of the tickets, they aren't valid tickets, are they!?!

I have no will to start another ten page debate on the matter and I believe no purpose would be served by doing so.

 

[yorkie]

To sum my opinion up into a simple statement, condition 19 allows you to use two or more tickets for one journey provided they are valid for the entire journey, but if you don't obey the conditions of the tickets, they aren't valid tickets, are they!?!

Indeed, you can combine more than one ticket for one journey. And the conditions of Advance tickets includes this easement:

If delays occur while
travelling, they will be
allowed to take the next
available train(s) to complete
their journey.

I will let people draw their own conclusions from that!

As you know (I sent you a PM a few months ago, but am happy to re-send if required) someone very senior agrees that this "will be honoured".

And also East Coast agreed and cancelled a UPFN issued for someone combining Advances who experienced a delay on the first ticket and promised to give suitable advice on the guard (I think I PM'd you about that before, if not let me know and I will re-send). Ironically I saw the guard the very next day on the 0836, but I chose not to mention it!

However you are certainly right that we should not tell people that they will not experience any problems with this, I agree it is unlikely but people should be aware that a small minority of guards will attempt to charge for a new ticket, and my advice as I stated before is to get a UPFN and not hand over any money whatsoever. I will assist them in attempting to overturn the UPFN, get suitable compensation (if applicable), and ensure appropriate advice is given to the guard, and I will use whatever contacts / pressure is necessary to achieve that aim.

The vast majority of guards are sound, and a massive credit to the industry, and will "show discretion" in accordance with their training in the event of disruption and delays on the railway.

 

[Flamingo]

just to add - remember to bring proof of the whole journey, don't just turn up with the ticket for one part having thrown everything else, and expect the guard/RPI to take your word for it - they won't!

 

[Zamracene749]

Cheers folks, good advice all round.

 

[yorkie]

No problem

And, I agree with Flamingo's point; it's the combination that is valid, not someone's word for it that they had such a ticket that has since been chucked away (although I'd hope no-one reading this would be daft enough to do that!)

 

[Flamingo]

No problem

And, I agree with Flamingo's point; it's the combination that is valid, not someone's word for it that they had such a ticket that has since been chucked away (although I'd hope no-one reading this would be daft enough to do that!)

Nothing is foolproof - idiots are very ingenious!