Confusion over collecting advance tickets

[arb]

Hi all,

I'm after some advice regarding a potential problem collecting pre-booked advance tickets. I live in Cambridge, and on New Year's Eve, will be making a return journey to Preston. I have some of the First Capital Connect free scratchcard tickets, which I was going to use to travel between Cambridge and London, and I have then booked advance singles from London Euston to Preston via the Virgin Trains website. Because I live in Cambridge, and wanted to collect the tickets before the delay of travel, I chose to collect these tickets from Cambridge station rather than London Euston.

Since I made the booking, my bank has, completely unexpectedly, sent me a replacement credit card. The old one hadn't expired; I didn't lose it; nothing was wrong it - I was just sent a new card by the bank and told to destroy the old card, which I did.

I've now found that the ticket machine in Cambridge won't give me the London to Preston tickets, because I don't have the exact card that I made the booking with (even though the new card is tied to the same account). I asked the staff at the station what to do, and they said there was nothing they could do - I'd have to phone Virgin up and get them to change the card reference that I was allowed to collect the tickets with.

I've just got off the phone to Virgin, and they've said that they can't change the card reference. Initially, they told me all I could do was go into Cambridge station again, where the staff might, at their discretion, issue me with the tickets, but they're not obliged to. If they won't, then I'd have to buy new tickets (and they also rubbed salt in the wound by telling me that I wouldn't be entitled to a refund on the originals, because they're advance tickets).

After saying that I was unhappy with that answer, and asking to speak to somebody more senior, I was told that I could go to any station operated by Virgin Trains (and after asking how I was supposed to know which company runs which station, was told that the nearest Virgin Trains stations to Cambridge would be in London, Birmingham or Coventry!) with photo ID, where the tickets would be issued.

Now, whilst this is theoretically OK for me, since I can fortunately get to London Euston on New Year's Eve with my free scratchcard ticket, I'd like to ask does anybody here know if this really is the only option? Is there no way that I can get the ticket issued to me at Cambridge before the date of travel?

What would happen to me if:
1) The staff at London Euston decide to point out that I'd selected Cambridge, not London, as my collection station, and refuse to help?
2) My train into London is delayed, until after the departure time of my advance ticket, and the staff in London then say I'm too late to collect the ticket, because I've already missed the train. (I know that theoretically I'm covered to be allowed to travel on the next London to Preston train in this situation, having read the many threads on here referring to the Conditions of Carriage and the Advance Fares FAQ - but does all of that still hold if I haven't already collected the London to Preston tickets before the booked train departs London?)

These are the kind of reasons that I'd like to collect my ticket from Cambridge, before the day of travel, if there's any possible way of doing so. Can anybody suggest a way of doing this, other than repeatedly going into Cambridge station on the off-chance of finding a staff member who will show discretion?

Finally, as a hypothetical question, where would I stand if I hadn't got the free scratchcard tickets to get to London, and had instead booked an advance ticket from Cambridge to Preston? This is what makes me believe that the advice I've been given on the phone can't be right - how would I then get to a Virgin Trains station (i.e. London) to collect the tickets, since I'd have no way of doing the Cambridge to London leg of the journey without having already collected the tickets!

Thanks

 

[gordonthemoron]

it's nice to know that Virgin is so customer focussed, perhaps you should write to that nice Richard Branson, it can't be the first time this has happened

 

[button_boxer]

Picking up tickets from a different station isn't generally a problem (with the exception of some special offer tickets from Southern, as far as I know). The booking sites make you choose a particular station to cover themselves but all the stations in the selection list are on a common system and you can collect the tickets from a machine at any of them. However the fact that you've destroyed the original card makes things a bit more awkward. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will be along soon with a suggestion.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Before anyone here can give advice that is going to give you the absolute confidence you are looking for, I think you should tell us exactly what evidence you do have.
For example, do you have hard copy of the most recent Credit Card statements from the 'old' account (whose card you have now destroyed)?
Do you have the letter from your Credit Card Company / Bank which refers to your name and address, asking you to destroy the 'old' card account and to use the 'new' card account (with card numbers)?
Do you have the replacement card?
Do you have hard copy of the booking reference with you name and 'old' Bank Card number?
Do you have some additional form of government ID with your name and address on it?
Do you have the means to scan any of these and send by email if required?
Have you now added your 'new' Bank Card number to your Virgin on-line account and is your 'old' card number still active in there?

I will wait for someone with more knowledge of Virgin's Retail Policies to give you a more assuring reply, but I'd guess that if we knew which of the above you could produce it would help. I can give you the less-satisfactory assurance that counter staff have the physical ability to recall a pre-booked ticket and print them for you, the question you are asking is what do you have to do to persuade them to do so.

I'd also advise taking the name of each person you speak to so that you can refer back to each conversation if it becomes necessary.

 

[quarella]

Have you considered complaining to the body that is actually the cause of this difficulty and seeing how they intend to rectify the problem. Namely your bank.

 

[AlterEgo]

Initially, they told me all I could do was go into Cambridge station again, where the staff might, at their discretion, issue me with the tickets, but they're not obliged to.

So have you been to Cambridge to collect your tickets? This is the standard (and easiest) way of replacing tickets. The customer's account is updated with notes reflecting the loss/replacement of the original card, and you then pick it up from a staffed station.

However, Virgin cannot actually force FCC to give you the tickets, which is why they took pains to point out that it is at the station staff's discretion (i.e. that they are satisfied you are the cardholder and have proper ID).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What would happen to me if:
1) The staff at London Euston decide to point out that I'd selected Cambridge, not London, as my collection station, and refuse to help?

Will not happen.

You can pick up a booking made on the Virgin Trains website from any Virgin Trains booking office with appropriate ID. So you can pick them up from Euston during your journey.

2) My train into London is delayed, until after the departure time of my advance ticket, and the staff in London then say I'm too late to collect the ticket, because I've already missed the train. (I know that theoretically I'm covered to be allowed to travel on the next London to Preston train in this situation, having read the many threads on here referring to the Conditions of Carriage and the Advance Fares FAQ - but does all of that still hold if I haven't already collected the London to Preston tickets before the booked train departs London?)

Just because you haven't collected the ticket doesn't mean you don't have a contract. You will be covered.

These are the kind of reasons that I'd like to collect my ticket from Cambridge, before the day of travel, if there's any possible way of doing so. Can anybody suggest a way of doing this, other than repeatedly going into Cambridge station on the off-chance of finding a staff member who will show discretion?

The off-chance? Not quite.

FCC have the capability to reissue your ticket (provided you satisfy them you are the cardholder) - I would be surprised if they refused.

Finally, as a hypothetical question, where would I stand if I hadn't got the free scratchcard tickets to get to London, and had instead booked an advance ticket from Cambridge to Preston?

Nothing would be different.

 

[tom3107]

This happened to me about a month ago. I went to my local FCC station on the TL route and the ticket office staff just asked for my current bank card to check the name against the booking reference and printed the tickets for me.

 

[causton]

Perhaps you should try an actual FCC station then - isn't Cambridge managed by NXEA? Unless AlterEgo is right and the ticket office is run by FCC staff, in which case ignore me

 

[wintonian]

In light of the above if FCC still refuse to help (which is unlikely) then there is still a contract and I would have thought that buying a new ticket and writing in with a complaint/ refund request would provided a resolution if all else fails.

Sent from my HTC Desire S

 

[arb]

For example, do you have hard copy of the most recent Credit Card statements from the 'old' account (whose card you have now destroyed)?

It's an online account. I can print out the old statements, but I don't have any that were actually posted to me.

Do you have the letter from your Credit Card Company / Bank which refers to your name and address, asking you to destroy the 'old' card account and to use the 'new' card account (with card numbers)?

No - I've destroyed that as well.

Do you have the replacement card?

Yes.

Do you have hard copy of the booking reference with you name and 'old' Bank Card number?

Only the e-mail confirmation from the booking, which just has the last four digits of the old card number.

Do you have some additional form of government ID with your name and address on it?

Er - does a passport have your address on it? I can't remember. If it does, then yes. If not, I don't think so. Council tax bill?

Do you have the means to scan any of these and send by email if required?

Yes.

Have you now added your 'new' Bank Card number to your Virgin on-line account and is your 'old' card number still active in there?

I tend not to store my credit card numbers in online shopping websites, and type them in every time I use them. This is true of the Virgin Trains site - it doesn't have either the old or new card number stored there.

So have you been to Cambridge to collect your tickets? This is the standard (and easiest) way of replacing tickets. The customer's account is updated with notes reflecting the loss/replacement of the original card, and you then pick it up from a staffed station.

I went to the station first of all. They told me there was nothing they could do until Virgin updated details of the booking. But Virgin are refusing to do so. Going in to Cambridge again to ask the same question when Virgin haven't made any changes to the booking seems like it would be a waste of time...

Finally, as a hypothetical question, where would I stand if I hadn't got the free scratchcard tickets to get to London, and had instead booked an advance ticket from Cambridge to Preston?

Nothing would be different.

Would the ticket barrier staff at Cambridge let me through before I'd collected the ticket from London? What about if there was a ticket check on the Cambridge to London train?

 

[Paul Kelly]

I went to the station first of all. They told me there was nothing they could do until Virgin updated details of the booking. But Virgin are refusing to do so.

Are you sure Virgin haven't made any changes to the booking? All you said was that they refused to update the reference so you could use a different card. But that isn't standard practice. Standard practice (as far as I can glean from reading various reports on here) is to update the booking to let the station staff know that there is an issue with the original card, and that they should, at their discretion, release the tickets without the card being present, on presentation of some other form of ID.

 

[wintonian]

This happened to me about a month ago. I went to my local FCC station on the TL route and the ticket office staff just asked for my current bank card to check the name against the booking reference and printed the tickets for me.

I had an issue with SWT where I went to collect tickets and after printing the out part the TVM decided it had a fault. I went to the ticket office and they looked it up and could see my booking but insisted that they could do nothing and I would have to contact the TOC that sold it to me.

The only problem with this was that my train was due and I was traveling on an AP, and as such they were happy to sell me a new walk on ticket and I could write in to the TOC that sold me the ticket I was to collect and ask for a refund even though it was SWT's machine that throw a wobbly. :eek::mad:

Sent from my HTC Desire S

 

[AlterEgo]

Perhaps you should try an actual FCC station then - isn't Cambridge managed by NXEA? Unless AlterEgo is right and the ticket office is run by FCC staff, in which case ignore me

Sorry, you're right, it is NXEA.

Oops!

NXEA are still able to print off the ticket - Virgin only need to put a note onto the booking and NXEA should release it. This is standard practice and probably occurs fifty times a day, at least, with no problems.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Would the ticket barrier staff at Cambridge let me through before I'd collected the ticket from London? What about if there was a ticket check on the Cambridge to London train?

No - but you shouldn't have a problem collecting it from Cambridge, provided Virgin add a small note to the booking detailing that your card has been superseded.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Virgin only need to put a note onto the booking and NXEA should release it. This is standard practice . . . .

Agreed.

In view of the (limited) range of evidence you can provide, then I'd suggest sending an email to Virgin's Customer Service, quoting your booking reference (and the journey covered by that reference just to provide a cross-check).

Simply explain that you have changed your Bank Card / Credit Card as advised by your Bank. Ask if they would please update the card number on their Bookings database to the new number.
Enclose copies of the statement from your 'old' and from your 'new' accounts (even if they are simply downloaded) (obliterate any personal identifying info other than you name, address, account no).
Enclose a scan of any correspondence you have on paper from your bank or the Council Tax bill if that's all you've got.
Don't use the passport.
Enclose a copy of the booking under the 'old' reference no.

Don't go into all the detail about Cambridge that you've posted on here, though do end by saying that you still intend to collect the tickets from Cambridge on (say) Fri 16th Dec using your replacement card and would they please confirm when they have updated the record.

I believe that should be adequate, but it doesn't prevent you from trying again in person at the local station as well. If you do, take all the evidence you can with you if you do, including passport. Again, don't go into all the detail on here, simply that you have changed card and would like to collect your tickets please.

 

[AlterEgo]

I would advise strongly calling Virgin's After Sales team on 0844 556 5650. Simply state you have had your card superseded and could they please arrange for you to pick the tickets up from Cambridge. Don't get into technical nonsense about changing card numbers (it is not possible for Virgin to do this). They should simply leave a note (I imagine they have already) to state your situation and NXEA should release the tickets provided you can show Photo ID. A passport is ideal - it does not need to contain your address.

Then, go to Cambridge station and ask for the tickets. Show your ID and job done.

I fear that perhaps this is a situation where the OP has had this 'mini crisis', and Virgin have actually already provided the solution. However, as it's not the solution the OP had in mind, this has caused some confusion.

This is a very basic problem and the solution is, as you'd expect, mundane and simple.

(Note to OP - I am very au fait with this problem and my advice, I assure you, can be trusted.)

 

[dvboy]

in theory you should be able to pick it up from anywhere with a printout of the confirmation email. i dont think it even needs a note putting on the system from virgin. a case of a toc sticking to stupid rules that dont serve any purpose.

 

[AlterEgo]

in theory you should be able to pick it up from anywhere with a printout of the confirmation email. i dont think it even needs a note putting on the system from virgin. a case of a toc sticking to stupid rules that dont serve any purpose.

Oh right. Guess I was wrong then! :roll:

 

[dvboy]

Oh right. Guess I was wrong then! :roll:

i'm not saying you're wrong. juat speaking from experience

 

[AlterEgo]

i'm not saying you're wrong. juat speaking from experience

But you have offered incorrect advice I'm afraid. This:

i dont think it even needs a note putting on the system from virgin

...is incorrect.

 

[dvboy]

But you have offered incorrect advice I'm afraid. This:



...is incorrect.

what i meant was it shouldn't. and virgin have printed tickets booked with a different toc for me before, no questions

 

[AlterEgo]

what i meant was it shouldn't. and virgin have printed tickets booked with a different toc for me before, no questions

That is different to asking a different TOC to print a Virgin booked ticket.

 

[dvboy]

That is different to asking a different TOC to print a Virgin booked ticket.

it's only the other way around. which tocs are involved are irrelevant surely?

 

[yorkie]

it's only the other way around. which tocs are involved are irrelevant surely?

The TOC(s) you travel with (is that what you mean are "involved" ?) are of course irrelevant, but the key here is the point of sale, e.g. Virgin website etc.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

(Note to OP - I am very au fait with this problem and my advice, I assure you, can be trusted.)

He is. And it can.

I think you can resolve the differences between AlterEgo's advice to call Virgin's After-Sales and my advice to send documentary evidence by email was based on my understanding that your attempts to arrange for the collection of your tickets by speaking with Virgin by telephone had failed and that you sought an alternative resolution.

Whether or not my understanding was wrong, I'll leave to you. It would certainly be easier if you could resolve it quickly by phone. My advice was aimed at a resolution which assumed that you would not attempt another telephone solution and which still provided a good prospect of success and additionally provided some documentary trail should anything go wrong, which would assist in obtaining a refund afterwards.

[Sadly, much of my work involves ensuring that there is a paper-trail to support clients' interests in case there are subsequent disputes, as it is in getting straight to a simple resolution.]

Yes, give them another call. Only if that fails try an email.

 

[dvboy]

The TOC(s) you travel with (is that what you mean are "involved" ?) are of course irrelevant, but the key here is the point of sale, e.g. Virgin website etc.

from what i remember, lm sold me the ticket, virgin ticket office printed it, travelled with xc.

no different really to the op booking with virgin and trying to collect from an nxea ticket office

 

[causton]

from what i remember, lm sold me the ticket, virgin ticket office printed it, travelled with xc.

no different really to the op booking with virgin and trying to collect from an nxea ticket office

Except it is NXEA that have this policy. So if you repeated your scenario at Cambridge it could be travelling with XC and LM selling you the ticket as well, but your request would be denied there as well it seems!

 

[dvboy]

:roll: nxea

 

[arb]

I fear that perhaps this is a situation where the OP has had this 'mini crisis', and Virgin have actually already provided the solution. However, as it's not the solution the OP had in mind, this has caused some confusion.

Yes, I agree they have provided a solution. It's just that the solution they've provided (go to London) seems to be the most non-sensical and convoluted thing they could have come up with that I wouldn't be at all surprised to have problems collecting the tickets on the morning of travel due to more people not wanting to apply common sense. Hence why I'd like to try and find a way to get them beforehand, and asking here if there was any way of doing that. (In fact, the proposed solution of going to London only happens to work in this instance because the ticket I want to collect starts from London, not Cambridge).

Based on this thread, I think the opinion seems to be that Cambridge will print the tickets if I have suitable ID. The impression I've been given from Virgin is that it's a 50-50 chance based on someone's discretion as to whether Cambridge will give me the tickets. They didn't mention that the discretionary factor would be whether I had suitable ID - and this is probably what's caused my confusion, coupled with the fact that I've been told by station staff that I need to get the booking updated with a new credit card number. I'll try confirming all of this with Virgin over the phone, and then try collecting from Cambridge with suitable ID, and see what happens.

Thanks everyone.

 

[AlterEgo]

In my experience, the likelihood of you being able to pick the tickets up from Cambridge (provided notes are on the booking and you take your passport) is 98% or higher. I would be surprised to learn of any further problems.

Hope this is of some help/reassurance.

 

[snail]

Yes, give them another call.

This does sound like the kind of scenario where a game of 'Call Centre Bingo' could work wonders. where if you don't get the answer you want from the first person you speak to, you don't try to escalate it, you simply put the phone down and try again. Chances are after two or three attempts you will find a properly trained operative that listens to you and understands what you want instead of making up their own rules.