Confusion at Doncaster

[Searle]

I traveled back to University today, which was a journey of Stevenage - York, changing at Doncaster, and it's left me a bit confused with a few questions.

I got to Doncaster, from the 16:54 from King's Cross to Leeds, arriving at Doncaster at 18:21. I was going to change onto the 18:23 to Sunderland, but this ended up being very heavily delayed, so my back up plan was the 18:33 to York. When I alighted at Doncaster, I went to check the boards to see how it was doing, and there was no mention of the 18:33 at all! Instead, the next train to York was the 19:12, which didn't show on National Rail, or OTT.

However, the 18:33 to York was shown on National Rail to be arriving at 19:12, so I put two and two together to work out they were the same thing. I suppose East Coast were just being very cheeky and claiming that it was actually due in at 19:12 and was claimed to be On Time! However this showed me another contradiction, National Rail Enquiries claimed that the train was stopping at Peterborough and Retford (unfortunately I didn't screenshot it on my phone), whereas it wasn't on OTT! I later checked with the guard, and it turns out it did stop at Peterborough and Retford, which led me to wonder why it wasn't shown in the timeable on OTT.

Meanwhile, OTT was claiming that the 18:33 was due into Doncaster at 18:58, and after a while the 19:12 changed to the 19:04 (miraculously), before arriving at 18:58, as predicted by OTT. Then yet ANOTHER contradiction occurred: the boards said it stopped at York only, and the station announcement (a manual one) said it stopped at Leeds, and then York. Both the OTT and National Rail Enquiries agreed with the board, however it did stop at Leeds, although I'm not sure if people alighted (the doors were unlocked though, so I assume they did).

I eventually made it into York at 19:52, to be met with lots of people running for the 19:55 to Edinburgh, seems like that must have been delayed, there were a lot of people changing onto it :P I was also about to send off my Delay Repay, before I noticed that I was going to make an "illegal" connection at Doncaster, so it wouldn't be valid: not pleased at all!

So can anyone explain why East Coast claimed their train would be 'on time' at 19:12 before changing it to 19:04, and why was there discrepancy between OTT and NRE?

Also one last question, which 43's were on the last service (ex 17:00 from KGX)? I got 43274 but missed the other due to running for my bus at York!

Sorry if it seems jumbled, that'll be because it is

Thanks!

 

[yorkie]

If you had changed at Leeds, you would have got to York 1933, 10 minutes before the train you caught was due and 20 minutes before it actually arrived!

 

[Cherry_Picker]

This is God's way of telling you that 2 minutes isnt a valid connection time.

 

[quarella]

I suppose East Coast were just being very cheeky and claiming that it was actually due in at 19:12 and was claimed to be On Time!

It may be Network Rail retiming it. In their world where delay minutes are everything if a train is sufficiently delayed they want to cancel the original schedule and create a new one where the train runs on time. While this isn't so much of an issue for freight I have had so many arguments pointing out that people will have used the published timetable and the effect this "fiddle" has on the Customer information Systems.

 

[Max]

Not sure why the boards were going crazy with the times, but I believe the Leeds calls on the diverted London-York/Newcastle/Edinburgh services on Sundays at the moment are not intended for passengers (see http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/N51421/2013/2/10). This presumably is to prevent masses of people from booking London-Leeds journeys on these trains, which I believe are reduced to hourly during the current Sunday blockades between Temple Hirst and Colton.

 

[Searle]

If you had changed at Leeds, you would have got to York 1933, 10 minutes before the train you caught was due and 20 minutes before it actually arrived!

I did think, after I left the train that I could have stayed on and it'd probably be quicker. No idea why this didn't occur to me when I booked it

This is God's way of telling you that 2 minutes isnt a valid connection time.

It was 6 minutes before my original train was delayed


Thanks for the replies guys

 

[Tom]

I got to Doncaster, from the 16:54 from King's Cross to Leeds, arriving at Doncaster at 18:21. I was going to change onto the 18:23 to Sunderland, but this ended up being very heavily delayed, so my back up plan was the 18:33 to York. When I alighted at Doncaster, I went to check the boards to see how it was doing, and there was no mention of the 18:33 at all! Instead, the next train to York was the 19:12, which didn't show on National Rail, or OTT.

However, the 18:33 to York was shown on National Rail to be arriving at 19:12, so I put two and two together to work out they were the same thing. I suppose East Coast were just being very cheeky and claiming that it was actually due in at 19:12 and was claimed to be On Time! However this showed me another contradiction, National Rail Enquiries claimed that the train was stopping at Peterborough and Retford (unfortunately I didn't screenshot it on my phone), whereas it wasn't on OTT! I later checked with the guard, and it turns out it did stop at Peterborough and Retford, which led me to wonder why it wasn't shown in the timeable on OTT.

Given OTT hasn't got realtime data and your links, I presume you mean RTT .

The reason for a train to be calling at Peterborough & Retford and not showing on RTT is quite simple - it may have been as a result of special stop orders being placed on the train.

So can anyone explain why East Coast claimed their train would be 'on time' at 19:12 before changing it to 19:04, and why was there discrepancy between OTT and NRE?

I suspect it was just the CIS buggering up. The station call discrepancy is listed above (special stop orders). The prediction differences are because NRE don't open up their data so I make my own.

 

[sprinterguy]

Also one last question, which 43's were on the last service (ex 17:00 from KGX)? I got 43274 but missed the other due to running for my bus at York!

43300 and 43274.

 

[43095john]

The Diverted Leeds Calls were advertised as not a Public stop, to prevent people for Leeds from getting this. However, the past 2 weeks the doors have been released at Leeds, and staff have treated this as a normal passenger call at Leeds....

 

[AlexS]

Given OTT hasn't got realtime data and your links, I presume you mean RTT .

The reason for a train to be calling at Peterborough & Retford and not showing on RTT is quite simple - it may have been as a result of special stop orders being placed on the train.


I suspect it was just the CIS buggering up. The station call discrepancy is listed above (special stop orders). The prediction differences are because NRE don't open up their data so I make my own.

Quite easily done - 2 Glasgow bound services called at Leicester on Sunday due to a fatality - this does seem to be the most likely reason for OTT not being updated in pretty similar circumstances.

 

[Searle]

Given OTT hasn't got realtime data and your links, I presume you mean RTT .

The reason for a train to be calling at Peterborough & Retford and not showing on RTT is quite simple - it may have been as a result of special stop orders being placed on the train.


I suspect it was just the CIS buggering up. The station call discrepancy is listed above (special stop orders). The prediction differences are because NRE don't open up their data so I make my own.

I wasn't sure what to call it, but yes, I did mean RTT :P

43300 and 43274.

Thanks for that

The Diverted Leeds Calls were advertised as not a Public stop, to prevent people for Leeds from getting this. However, the past 2 weeks the doors have been released at Leeds, and staff have treated this as a normal passenger call at Leeds....

Ah ok, thanks. I may/may not have seen it on the boards at Leeds, it was quite far away and small. I did think it may have been made into an advertised stop due to the disruption at Alexandra Palace. The on board shop was restocked while we were there as well.