Confusing pick up only at Reading

[mangyiscute]

So I have seen plenty of pick-up only services such at Watford, or at Reading on Fridays and Saturdays heading towards Penzance - the reason for these being pick up only is clear. However, while checking late-night options from Paddington to Reading, I noticed that RTT has the 23:18 from London to Oxford as pick up only at Reading (the first WTT occurence is https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W43540/2022-08-12/detailed but this is currently happening almost every weekday). This confused me as I saw no reason why this should be the case.

I did a bit of digging and searched for a journey from London to Reading at this time, and the 23:18 was not an option (https://www.gwr.com/tickets/#/3087/3149/2022-08-08/D23:00/N/N/1/0/0/1/1/N/N/N)

However, checking the TS timetable from GWR which is the summary of fast services from Paddington, the 23:18 is shown as arriving into Reading at 23:57, which suggests it can be used by passengers travelling to Reading - this is also the case in the T10 timetable for the Thames Valley stopping services.

So what is going on here? Is this train actually pick up only at Reading, and if so, why?

 

[JonathanH]

So what is going on here? Is this train actually pick up only at Reading, and if so, why?

Presumably this is a 5-car 80x unit and there is expected to be excess demand if the Reading set down is allowed.

There are other instances of 5-car Oxford services getting pick up only restrictions at intermediate stations to manage loadings, particularly on Saturdays.

 

[Starmill]

It thought that it looked like it's so it can depart early rather than waiting for eight minutes at Reading.... but of course, that's backwards.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jul 2022 ==

Presumably this is a 5-car 80x unit and there is expected to be excess demand if the Reading set down is allowed.

There are other instances of 5-car Oxford services getting pick up only restrictions at intermediate stations to manage loadings, particularly on Saturdays.

I've never seen that on a train that's not fast from London to Reading. Usually you'd just remove a stop at Slough if that were a real issue.

 

[JonathanH]

I've never seen that on a train that's not fast from London to Reading. Usually you'd just remove a stop at Slough if that were a real issue.

I was at Paddington earlier in the year on a Saturday and saw a Cotswold departure advertised as first stop Oxford but can't see that repeated now I look for it.

What makes the 2318 example odd is that although the Reading stop is shown pick up only, the Slough, Maidenhead and Twyford ones aren't.

 

[mangyiscute]

Yeah I guess that is probably the case, although when I've been on late-night trains to Oxford they have not been busy past Reading. Weird how it doesn't show this in the timetable, but maybe its been a reaction to the train overcrowding and leaving Oxford passengers waiting for the half midnight, so when the timetables were produced it was allowed for set down. The 23:30 to Bristol gets to Reading only 7 minutes later, so it's not too bad, providing that this isn't prone to overcrowding - I imagine this is why it's only Reading as the others don't have a viable alternative.

I can see the 15:50 to Great Malvern on weekdays is pick up only at Slough and Reading then from like 4 till 7 they don't even call anywhere between London and Oxford, not sure about Saturdays.

I am fairly often at Paddington quite late trying to get to Reading and since there is no Reading train from 22:50 until this train, I should be able to try out whether I can take it soon.

 

[Starmill]

I was at Paddington earlier in the year on a Saturday and saw a Cotswold departure advertised as first stop Oxford but can't see that repeated now I look for it.

What makes the 2318 example odd is that although the Reading stop is shown pick up only, the Slough, Maidenhead and Twyford ones aren't.

It would be pointless to stop at Slough, Maidenhead or Twyford to pick up only at that time of night. Nobody would be there...

 

[Johnny Lewis]

This is correct and the train IS now pick up only at Reading.
Initially this was done on an STP (i.e. short-term) basis so it was not incorporated into the permanent timetable - hence the train still being shown in timetable TS.

Eventually a decision was made to make this a permanent change. For various reasons, it has not proved possible to get the timetable PDF updated to reflect this. Staff at Paddington are managing this locally.

The reason for it is due to severe ("dangerous") overcrowding on this service departing from Paddington, with the intention that passengers requiring a fast service to Reading should use the 23.32 to Bristol Temple Meads which is a 9 car set, so has more space.

Assuming these arrangements continue into the December 2022 timetable change, the train will be shown correctly in timetables from that point.

 

[JonathanH]

I can see the 15:50 to Great Malvern on weekdays is pick up only at Slough and Reading then from like 4 till 7 they don't even call anywhere between London and Oxford, not sure about Saturdays.

Ah, maybe it was a weekday. It was the 1550 to Great Malvern I was thinking of regarding pick up restrictions.

This is correct and the train IS now pick up only at Reading.

Presumably it sets down at Slough, Maidenhead and Twyford because it is the final connection for the branches and there was a desire for a slightly later connection from London? However, is there really room for those passengers?

 

[30907]

Presumably it sets down at Slough, Maidenhead and Twyford because it is the final connection for the branches and there was a desire for a slightly later connection from London? However, is there really room for those passengers?

Presumably it's manageable (and leaves room for pax to board at Reading!)

 

[mangyiscute]

Have noticed also that it is a 10 coach train today, so clearly needs big capacity

 

[Kite159]

Shame there can't be a way to have the Reading call at "pick-up" only from Paddington, but an advertised call for anybody boarding at Slough/Maidenhead/Twyford. So any passengers at those stations don't have to wait 30 minutes for the next service, or leave earlier if they wanted that last train towards Bristol.

 

[JonathanH]

So any passengers at those stations don't have to wait 30 minutes for the next service, or leave earlier if they wanted that last train towards Bristol.

They don't. The wait is 12 minutes for the 2330 from Paddington to Didcot Parkway which calls at all three stations and still makes the Bristol connection.

 

[zwk500]

Shame there can't be a way to have the Reading call at "pick-up" only from Paddington, but an advertised call for anybody boarding at Slough/Maidenhead/Twyford. So any passengers at those stations don't have to wait 30 minutes for the next service, or leave earlier if they wanted that last train towards Bristol.

I can't see a note saying 'This train will call at Reading to set down passengers from Slough but not Paddington' lasting more than 3 minutes. If such a passenger were to be waiting at Slough, control can always change the boards and inform the guard of a SSO to set down Reading.

 

[Kite159]

They don't. The wait is 12 minutes for the 2330 from Paddington to Didcot Parkway which calls at all three stations and still makes the Bristol connection.

Which gets into Reading at 00:26, which using RTT for the 12th August is a good 20 minutes after the last Bristol train has gone into the night (at that time the last Bristol Train will be between Didcot & Swindon), as well as the last train towards Newbury

 

[JonathanH]

Which gets into Reading at 00:26, which using RTT for the 12th August is a good 20 minutes after the last Bristol train has gone into the night (at that time the last Bristol Train will be between Didcot & Swindon), as well as the last train towards Newbury

Ah oops. Yes, the 2330 goes down the relief line all the way and the 2332 gets in front at Airport Junction.

Incidentally the 2318 is showing 10 car on RTT tonight.

 

[Kite159]

Ah oops. Yes, the 2330 goes down the relief line all the way and the 2332 gets in front at Airport Junction.

Incidentally the 2318 is showing 10 car on RTT tonight.

Just means any passengers at those stations will need to be on the Crossrail service 20-odd minutes earlier (2242 London Paddington to Reading) and have a ~ 25 minute wait at Reading for the last Bristol train

 

[mangyiscute]

Surely they could just not advertise the reading stop at paddington but advertise it elsewhere - the savvy travellers would take the train to reading but most wouldn't

 

[CyrusWuff]

Surely they could just not advertise the reading stop at paddington but advertise it elsewhere - the savvy travellers would take the train to reading but most wouldn't

That would almost certainly require manual intervention once the train has departed Paddington.

Certainly the Customer Information System software my TOC uses doesn't allow such fiddling automagically.

If a train's got a call set as pick up only then it won't display at any calling points before that station.

 

[43096]

Eventually a decision was made to make this a permanent change. For various reasons, it has not proved possible to get the timetable PDF updated to reflect this. Staff at Paddington are managing this locally.

Another classic railway limp excuse! It cannot be that difficult to get the original timetable document, add a ‘u’ against the Reading time, generate a new PDF and upload to the website.

 

[pelli]

Surely they could just not advertise the reading stop at paddington but advertise it elsewhere - the savvy travellers would take the train to reading but most wouldn't

That would almost certainly require manual intervention once the train has departed Paddington.

Certainly the Customer Information System software my TOC uses doesn't allow such fiddling automagically.

If a train's got a call set as pick up only then it won't display at any calling points before that station.

Presumably the technology already exists, at Paddington and elsewhere, for concourse/platform displays at specific stations to automatically show something different from the true calling pattern of the train, as this is (or has been) sometimes used to show false destinations for stopping services being overtaken by faster ones and for circular services, in order to avoid passenger confusion (e.g. as discussed in a previous thread)?

A problem with doing the same here would be that, unlike for overtaken/circular services, the journey opportunity being hidden here is actually useful and hence would show up in journey planners, resulting in people turning up at Paddington asking why their itinerary says to take a train to Reading that's not shown as stopping at Reading. So you'd have to make the journey planners specifically ban people who boarded at Paddington from disembarking at Reading, and I'm not sure if that's possible without significant modification? In principle one could input the train as two separate services, one starting from Paddington that's pick-up-only (or non-stop) at Reading and another starting from Slough (or starting from a set-down-only stop at Paddington!) that calls at Reading normally, but this would likely cause too much trouble with all the other systems using the same data...

 

[Johnny Lewis]

Another classic railway limp excuse! It cannot be that difficult to get the original timetable document, add a ‘u’ against the Reading time, generate a new PDF and upload to the website.

The train appears in several different timetables, would need to be removed from one (and thus that timetable would need to be reformatted), the data / base PDFs are also unfortunately owned by an external company who don't do this kind of thing for free. There has to come a cut-off point, and as far as I know, this change fell on the wrong side of it!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The train appears in several different timetables, would need to be removed from one (and thus that timetable would need to be reformatted), the data / base PDFs are also unfortunately owned by an external company who don't do this kind of thing for free. There has to come a cut-off point, and as far as I know, this change fell on the wrong side of it!

Then they’re bang out of order if they enforce it then. If I see a train in GWR’s valid timetable, I expect to be allowed to travel on it if I buy an appropriate ticket and head to board it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The train appears in several different timetables, would need to be removed from one (and thus that timetable would need to be reformatted), the data / base PDFs are also unfortunately owned by an external company who don't do this kind of thing for free. There has to come a cut-off point, and as far as I know, this change fell on the wrong side of it!

Faulty contract then. I agree, a limp excuse.