Confusing Paddington Ticket Validity

[SWT444PORTS]

Hi All,

I recently travelled between Northallerton and Exeter St Davids on a Thursday late afternoon/evening.

I booked a Super Off Peak return and when booking the suggested services given were the 15:09 VTEC Northallerton-Kings Cross, Underground and the 18:35 GWR Paddington-Exeter. I booked the tickets through TP express and travelled on the suggested services.

Upon arriving at Paddington I checked the departure boards and to my horror, the 18:35 to Exeter St David's departure board stated that 'Super off peak returns are NOT valid on this service'. I went to the ticket office and spoke to a very helpful lady who said at first that the ticket was not valid on this service, however upon checking returned and said that actually it is valid as you have travelled from outside the south east network or something along those lines. I was slightly concerned that the guard/ticket inspector would question its validity, however in the end tickets weren't checked...

I was just thinking that this seems incredibly confusing especially to non-regular travellers. I travel regularly by train and it certainly confused me.

I was just wondering if anyone else has had any similar experience/confusion travelling out of Paddington with ticketing rules such as these...

 

[Clip]

Theres a massive thread somewhere about this and she was right about the validity from outside the NSE area. Its a problem for sure as the wording should say something different.

Though I can see why they so say it, badly, due to the sheer overcrowding of peak services out of PAD.

 

[RJ]

I was just thinking that this seems incredibly confusing especially to non-regular travellers. I travel regularly by train and it certainly confused me.

I was just wondering if anyone else has had any similar experience/confusion travelling out of Paddington with ticketing rules such as these...

The railway's way of doing things is to put out a simplified message - if it's right for a majority of people, but wrong for others then it's good enough to be broadcast.

As staff don't always get it right, it's best to try and get a printout or save the journey plan you got with your ticket on your phone if you can.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Theres a massive thread somewhere about this and she was right about the validity from outside the NSE area.

It's also valid from some stations inside the former NSE area. The absolute nature of the statement of invalidity is incorrect, although there's at least one poster who has a dispute with the staff at Paddington about this nearly every time he travels.

 

[yorkie]

Hi All,

I recently travelled between Northallerton and Exeter St Davids on a Thursday late afternoon/evening.

I booked a Super Off Peak return and when booking the suggested services given were the 15:09 VTEC Northallerton-Kings Cross, Underground and the 18:35 GWR Paddington-Exeter. I booked the tickets through TP express and travelled on the suggested services.

Upon arriving at Paddington I checked the departure boards and to my horror, the 18:35 to Exeter St David's departure board stated that 'Super off peak returns are NOT valid on this service'. I went to the ticket office and spoke to a very helpful lady who said at first that the ticket was not valid on this service, however upon checking returned and said that actually it is valid as you have travelled from outside the south east network or something along those lines. I was slightly concerned that the guard/ticket inspector would question its validity, however in the end tickets weren't checked...

I was just thinking that this seems incredibly confusing especially to non-regular travellers. I travel regularly by train and it certainly confused me.

I was just wondering if anyone else has had any similar experience/confusion travelling out of Paddington with ticketing rules such as these...

Your ticket is valid on ANY train from Paddington to Exeter, and any train from Exeter to Paddington.

Only the Northallerton to London (and return) part is restricted.

I don't think GWR will ever display accurate information on their screens; people have tried many times to get them to do this, but they refuse. Many other train companies do this too. It's often the same with announcements.

When you hear/read "super off peak tickets are not valid" they actually mean "Some super off peak tickets, such as those issued to/from London Terminals, are not valid"

 

[AM9]

Your ticket is valid on ANY train from Paddington to Exeter, and any train from Exeter to Paddington.

Only the Northallerton to London (and return) part is restricted.

I don't think GWR will ever display accurate information on their screens; people have tried many times to get them to do this, but they refuse. Many other train companies do this too. It's often the same with announcements.

When you hear/read "super off peak tickets are not valid" they actually mean "Some super off peak tickets, such as those issued to/from London Terminals, are not valid"

Is there a specific written condition in the published NRCoT that allows (or doesn't exclude) travel on any train with tickets origination outside the NSE area?

 

[miami]

On modern tickets it says something along the lines of "for restrictions see nationalrail.co.uk/1L"

On older tickets this is hidden in a 2 letter code in the corner.

All railway staff should be aware of these letters, what they mean, and where the restrictions are to be found, and assist in getting those restrictions. They aren't, instead many of them make up whatever restrictions they want to.

For reference the 1L restriction on a super off peak Northallerton to Exteter has 1L in the corner, and the only restrictions on the outbound are:

Not valid on trains timed to arrive:
London Terminals (except as shown below) after 04:29 and before 11:17;
London Liverpool Street after 04:29 and before 10:00;
London St Pancras International after 04:29 and before 11:26;
London Euston after 07:19 and before 11:30;
Stevenage after 03:59 and before 10:55;
Luton or Luton Airport Parkway after 04:29 and before 11:26;
Bedford after 04:29 and before 10:30;
Watford Junction after 06:43 and before 10:45;
Milton Keynes Central after 06:39 and before 10:48.

As any train leaving Paddington cannot currently conflict with any of these restrictions, and any train out of paddington is on a valid route, any train out of paddington is valid on this ticket, including a 7AM train or a 5PM train.

 

[talltim]

Good to hear a member of staff at Paddington looking up something they were unsure of AND finding the right answer

 

[Greenback]

It's good that the staff member in question actually checked this, but let's be honest, ti should never have had to come to that.

 

[30907]

When you hear/read "super off peak tickets are not valid" they actually mean "Some super off peak tickets, such as those issued to/from London Terminals, are not valid"

"Some" may be technically correct, in terms of the number of possible tickets - but in terms of volume at Padd it's surely rather an understatement - I would guess "most" would cover it nicely (and maybe even GWR could agree to it?).

 

[yorkie]

Agreed. I was meaning more generally, not just at Paddington, and yes referring to the number of possible tickets.

The assumption is often made that people are just travelling on one particular company and not making any sort of connection. Maybe that's true at certain stations, but is a bit beyond the scope of what I'm trying to say, which is that there are loads of possible restrictions out there, and a lot of generalising going on.

I'd not have a problem if they said "most" or "many" or any other appropriate wording which suggests that there is a possibility the statement might not apply to everyone!

 

[bb21]

The only way to be absolutely correct technically and in a practical way is not to display such a message on ticket restrictions at all.

Anyone thinking that they can come up with a clear message that is absolutely correct, does not confuse anyone or cause any practical problem is welcome to try it. Such a message does not exist.

If nothing is displayed, you'll still get complaints and criticisms. You simply can't satisfy everyone.

 

[yorkie]

Something like 'Some Super Off Peak fares are not valid - please check' would be a sensible compromise.

 

[bb21]

Such a message serves no useful purpose, and only cause doubts amongst many customers. (Those certain about ticket validity will feel no different whatever message is displayed.)

It is worse than showing no message on a practical level.

 

[ainsworth74]

"Super-Off Peak ticket to or from London Terminals are not valid"?

 

[bb21]

"Super-Off Peak ticket to or from London Terminals are not valid"?

That's cheating. If we are getting into the realms of limiting by origin/destination then all stations can do that and place blanket bans.

OK, poor wording by me earlier. Needs to be a general message relevant to all Super/Off-Peak ticket holders like what yorkie tried to do.

(That's not to say there is no merit in doing that. Some stations will find it easier showing blanket bans filtered by origin/destination than others. To those with other Off-Peak tickets, it is as good as not being shown anything so you are excluding a large chunk of customers, but we are getting closer. )

There are too issues with displaying these filtered messages, especially with London Terminals, but I do agree they are a better option in many ways, although as with all messages in this immensely complicated fares world, the smaller a subset it is applicable, the clearer you will be able to convey the message.