Confused about contactless : Oxford - London - Epsom and back.

[Stargull]

Hello

I am confused about the best value for travel tomorrow.

I'm going from Oxford - London, where I will use the tube at least twice and possibly more often. Between meetings in zone 1, I need to go to Epsom and back.

Should I just use contactless for all the London journeys (including the trip to Epsom) and trust the capping to help? Or should I get a travelcard from Oxford and then buy a London terminals - Epsom day return? Or can I get a boundary zone 6 - Epsom return somehow?

Or should I get an Oxford - Epsom return and break my journey?

I have a Network railcard and will be travelling at times when the discount applies.

 

[jfollows]

BZ6-Epsom cheapday return £3.30 on top of Oxford-London off-peak Travelcard £27.70 would be my starting point.

 

[Stargull]

Thanks - I hadn't realised the return would be cheap. All I have to do now is work out how to buy a BZ6 return...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Thanks - I hadn't realised the return would be cheap. All I have to do now is work out how to buy a BZ6 return...

Just ask at the ticket office at Oxford when you buy the Travelcard.

"...and a cheap day return from the boundary of Zone 6 to Epsom please."

 

[redreni]

Thanks - I hadn't realised the return would be cheap. All I have to do now is work out how to buy a BZ6 return...

The easiest way to buy this combination of tickets is from the ticket office at Oxford, I would suggest. Ask for an off-peak Travelcard and a cheap day return from Boundary Zone 6 to Epsom.

If there's a queue at Oxford you could just buy the Travelcard from the ticket machine and then buy the boundary zone extension from any ticket office (e.g. on arrival at Paddington, or before departure at Waterloo). I believe you can also get them from the ticket machines at Waterloo.

I believe Avanti West Coast also sells boundary zone tickets from its website (one of the few that do). Or you can get them from the forum's site by searching for a journey from Waterloo to Epsom and specifying in the advanced options that you already hold a Z1-6 Travelcard (in the "existing Travelcard held" box). But as most boundary zone fares are only issued as paper tickets, buying them online is a bit pointless as you still have to go to a ticket machine to collect them.

 

[Watershed]

I would suggest buying an:

• Oxford to Boundary Zone 6 Off-Peak Day Return (£16.50 with your Network Railcard), plus
• Zones 1-9 Off-Peak Day Travelcard. This can be bought from stations such as Brentwood or Amersham as a Zones 1-6 Day Travelcard with the routing "AAA [Also Available At] Zones 7-9". This would cost £13 as it is subject to the weekday £13 minimum fare on your Network Railcard.

Epsom is not advertised as being in Zone 9, but it actually is - so you can use a Zones 1-9 Travelcard there.

This would cost £29.50 in total, and would have the benefit that you aren't subject to any evening peak restrictions on the trains you can use from Paddington. You can simply leave Oxford anytime from 10am.

 

[Deerfold]

I would suggest buying an:

• Oxford to Boundary Zone 6 Off-Peak Day Return (£16.50 with your Network Railcard), plus
• Zones 1-9 Off-Peak Day Travelcard. This can be bought from stations such as Brentwood or Amersham as a Zones 1-6 Day Travelcard with the routing "AAA [Also Available At] Zones 7-9". This would cost £13 as it is subject to the weekday £13 minimum fare on your Network Railcard.

Epsom is not advertised as being in Zone 9, but it actually is - so you can use a Zones 1-9 Travelcard there.

This would cost £29.50 in total, and would have the benefit that you aren't subject to any evening peak restrictions on the trains you can use from Paddington. You can simply leave Oxford anytime from 10am.

I would have been wary of this with paper tickets, except that if you look up Epsom on the TfL website at https://tfl.gov.uk/hub/stop/910GEPSM/epsom-rail-station/ it clearly describes it as:

Epsom Rail Station​

(Zone 9)​

 

[redreni]

I would suggest buying an:

• Oxford to Boundary Zone 6 Off-Peak Day Return (£16.50 with your Network Railcard), plus
• Zones 1-9 Off-Peak Day Travelcard. This can be bought from stations such as Brentwood or Amersham as a Zones 1-6 Day Travelcard with the routing "AAA [Also Available At] Zones 7-9". This would cost £13 as it is subject to the weekday £13 minimum fare on your Network Railcard.

Epsom is not advertised as being in Zone 9, but it actually is - so you can use a Zones 1-9 Travelcard there.

This would cost £29.50 in total, and would have the benefit that you aren't subject to any evening peak restrictions on the trains you can use from Paddington. You can simply leave Oxford anytime from 10am.

That's worth knowing!

I imagine it wouldn't be convenient for the OP to go to Brentwood or Amersham to buy the Z1-9 Travelcard, so just to spell it out, if you search on the forum's site for a return journey from Brentwood to London Terminals after 10am with a Network Railcard, it will offer the Z1-9 day Travelcard at £13. If you add that to the basket and then do a new search for a return journey from Oxford to London Terminals, specifying in the advanced options that you already hold a Z1-6 Travelcard, it will offer the return ticket from Oxford to Boundary Zone 6. You would be able to buy those tickets online and collect them from the ticket machine at Oxford tomorrow morning.

Alternatively they should be able to sell these tickets from the ticket office at Oxford, although they may be confused as to why you want them so you would need to be careful they sold you the correct tickets as Watershed has specified.

 

[Stargull]

I was just typing to ask whether this meant going to Amersham! This is excellent advice - thanks.

Just to check - I could get an evening peak train back from Paddington because of the rules around boundary tickets? I've never used them before.

 

[jfollows]

The off-peak day return Oxford-BZ6 has restriction code W1 (https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ticket-types/validity/w1/)
but the Travelcard is C4:

Not valid on trains timed to depart after 16:00 from London Paddington on Great Western Railway services until 19:01

so unless I’m missing something you can’t use some afternoon “peak” services back to Oxford.

Well, that’s the Brentwood one, but Amersham’s doesn’t have the restriction! So stick with Amersham.

Nothing’s simple.

 

[redreni]

The off-peak day return Oxford-BZ6 has restriction code W1 (https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/ticket-types/validity/w1/)
but the Travelcard is C4:

so unless I’m missing something you can’t use some afternoon “peak” services back to Oxford.

Well, that’s the Brentwood one, but Amersham’s doesn’t have the restriction! So stick with Amersham.

Nothing’s simple.

I'd have thought so, but the forum's site is selling the boundary zone ticket in conjunction with itineraries on the fast trains in the evening peak period from Paddington when "off-peak day travelcard" is specified in the "Existing Travelcard Held" box. This appears not to take account of the ticket restrictions on the off-peak day travelcard.

That's interesting on at least two levels. (1) Is this a mistake, or is the journey planner data allowing this when the text of the ticket restriction doesn't? (2) Is there an entitlement to travel on the itinerary against which the boundary zone ticket was issued when the off-peak day travelcard wasn't issued against that itinerary?

I would have thought it unlikely you'd be allowed through the barriers at Paddington to get on one of the fast trains specifically barred by the restrictions on the day Travelcard. The peak restrictions can be avoided (perfectly legitimately) by getting the Elizabeth Line to Reading - once you're past West Drayton the evening peak restrictions cannot apply since they don't apply to the Oxford to Boundary Zone 6 ticket. Appreciate that makes the journey longer, but it is quite substantially cheaper than buying or excessing to an Anytime day Travelcard.

 

[Watershed]

I was just typing to ask whether this meant going to Amersham! This is excellent advice - thanks.

Just to check - I could get an evening peak train back from Paddington because of the rules around boundary tickets? I've never used them before.

Sorry - I should have spelled out that Amersham/Brentwood are really just notional origins since they are in Zone 9. It is a Zones 1-9 Travelcard either way, which you can use for unlimited travel on National Rail and TfL services within any (or all) of those Zones.

In terms of evening peak restrictions not applying, this is a function of the restriction code for the tickets used. Neither the code applying to the Zones 1-9 Travelcard (B1), nor the one applying to the Boundary Zone ticket (W1), mention any evening peak restrictions - whereas a conventional Off-Peak Day Return or Travelcard from Oxford to London has restriction code P7 which does have evening peak restrictions on most GWR departures between roughly 4-7pm.

As @jfollows correctly says, Amersham is the better bet since a Z1-9 Travelcard issued from there is unambiguously valid all day from 09:30, as is the Oxford-Boundary Zone 6 ticket (of course, with your Network Railcard discount you can't travel before 10am anyway). Sadly, the Paddington gateline staff are known for making up their own rules on occasion, so if your Travelcard doesn't work the barriers, you might have a bit of an argument on your hands.

It wouldn't be the first time - if it happens, as @redreni says you could take an Elizabeth line train instead and claim Delay Repay for being wrongly delayed. Or you could buy the new Anytime ticket which the GWR barrier staff may claim you need, and claim the cost of this back afterwards.

 

[Stargull]

BZ6-Epsom cheapday return £3.30 on top of Oxford-London off-peak Travelcard £27.70 would be my starting point.

Thank you all for this interesting discussion - it's very helpful. For tomorrow, I will be heading back late enough I don't need to think about the evening peak, so this seems like the option that might be easiest.

However: when I try to buy this from the forum site it trues to sell me tickets from particular stations before Epsom, rather than the boundary, which seems less flexible in terms of return routes. There are also £3,80 and £5 options, but I'm not sure what the difference is. Any further thoughts welcome...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Dec 2024 ==

Just ask at the ticket office at Oxford when you buy the Travelcard.

"...and a cheap day return from the boundary of Zone 6 to Epsom please."

I can of course do this, but as I'm relying on an easement to use my Network railcard on the 9.32 I'd rather get everything together online...

 

[redreni]

Thank you all for this interesting discussion - it's very helpful. For tomorrow, I will be heading back late enough I don't need to think about the evening peak, so this seems like the option that might be easiest.

However: when I try to buy this from the forum site it trues to sell me tickets from particular stations before Epsom, rather than the boundary, which seems less flexible in terms of return routes. There are also £3,80 and £5 options, but I'm not sure what the difference is. Any further thoughts welcome...

As I mentioned further up, you can buy boundary zone tickets from the Avanti West Coast website. Just type "boundary zone 6" as the origin and "Epsom" as the destination.

It's up to you, of course, but I don't really understand why you prefer this combination of tickets over the combination @Watershed suggested? His combination is cheaper and has more validity. If you're travelling after the evening peak then you won't encounter any problems at the Paddington gateline whether you have the Oxford to Z1-6 day Travelcard or the Z1-9 day Travelcard - either will open the barriers.

 

[railpigeon]

I would suggest buying an:

• Oxford to Boundary Zone 6 Off-Peak Day Return (£16.50 with your Network Railcard), plus
• Zones 1-9 Off-Peak Day Travelcard. This can be bought from stations such as Brentwood or Amersham as a Zones 1-6 Day Travelcard with the routing "AAA [Also Available At] Zones 7-9". This would cost £13 as it is subject to the weekday £13 minimum fare on your Network Railcard.

Epsom is not advertised as being in Zone 9, but it actually is - so you can use a Zones 1-9 Travelcard there.

This would cost £29.50 in total, and would have the benefit that you aren't subject to any evening peak restrictions on the trains you can use from Paddington. You can simply leave Oxford anytime from 10am.

I would suggest buying an:

• Oxford to Boundary Zone 6 Off-Peak Day Return (£16.50 with your Network Railcard), plus
• Zones 1-9 Off-Peak Day Travelcard. This can be bought from stations such as Brentwood or Amersham as a Zones 1-6 Day Travelcard with the routing "AAA [Also Available At] Zones 7-9". This would cost £13 as it is subject to the weekday £13 minimum fare on your Network Railcard.

Epsom is not advertised as being in Zone 9, but it actually is - so you can use a Zones 1-9 Travelcard there.

This would cost £29.50 in total, and would have the benefit that you aren't subject to any evening peak restrictions on the trains you can use from Paddington. You can simply leave Oxford anytime from 10am.

Perhaps also worth noting the Network Railcard easements from Oxford; validity on the 0932 and 0959 to Paddington.

Using your Railcard - Network Railcard

www.network-railcard.co.uk

 

[Stargull]

As I mentioned further up, you can buy boundary zone tickets from the Avanti West Coast website. Just type "boundary zone 6" as the origin and "Epsom" as the destination.

It's up to you, of course, but I don't really understand why you prefer this combination of tickets over the combination @Watershed suggested? His combination is cheaper and has more validity. If you're travelling after the evening peak then you won't encounter any problems at the Paddington gateline whether you have the Oxford to Z1-6 day Travelcard or the Z1-9 day Travelcard - either will open the barriers.

My thinking was that the Oxford travelcard was unambigously valid at Paddington, so would avoid arguments for the sake of a few quid. (Would obviously save more at peak times). But I do see your point that the other option is cheaper.

 

[yorkie]

I'd have thought so, but the forum's site is selling the boundary zone ticket in conjunction with itineraries on the fast trains in the evening peak period from Paddington when "off-peak day travelcard" is specified in the "Existing Travelcard Held" box. This appears not to take account of the ticket restrictions on the off-peak day travelcard.

That's interesting on at least two levels. (1) Is this a mistake, or is the journey planner data allowing this when the text of the ticket restriction doesn't? (2) Is there an entitlement to travel on the itinerary against which the boundary zone ticket was issued when the off-peak day travelcard wasn't issued against that itinerary?

I would have thought it unlikely you'd be allowed through the barriers at Paddington to get on one of the fast trains specifically barred by the restrictions on the day Travelcard. The peak restrictions can be avoided (perfectly legitimately) by getting the Elizabeth Line to Reading - once you're past West Drayton the evening peak restrictions cannot apply since they don't apply to the Oxford to Boundary Zone 6 ticket. Appreciate that makes the journey longer, but it is quite substantially cheaper than buying or excessing to an Anytime day Travelcard.

It's currently valid:

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

Outward Travel & Return Travel​
Restriction Code: W1 Restricted Days: Monday to Friday Mondays to Fridays​
Not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 09:30.

However, now that it's been mentioned here, it could be subject to change...

 

[Stargull]

Just a note to add the Amersham travel card does not open the barriers at Epsom, but I was waved through in both directions without a second glance.

 

[Watershed]

Just a note to add the Amersham travel card does not open the barriers at Epsom, but I was waved through in both directions without a second glance.

Glad to hear it.

 

[redreni]

Is there an official list of stations in zones 7, 8 and 9 anywhere? Or even a map that shows the zoning of all stations in zones 7-9?

 

[JonathanH]

Is there an official list of stations in zones 7, 8 and 9 anywhere? Or even a map that shows the zoning of all stations in zones 7-9?

There is a page on Wikipedia - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stations_in_London_fare_zones_7–16, but note the point about Zone 9 stations not being publicised as such.

The TfL Rail services map will also show it - https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf