Conductors scribbling on rovers

[WestAnglian]

I'm half way through a 14-day All LInes Rover. Yesterday, on board an EMR service, a very pleasant young conductor checked my ticket. She stared at it for ages, clearly confused, before scribbling on it. I asked why she'd done that in a conversational way. She told me about the risk of me passing the ticket on and so on. I then said that I'd been on some 50 trains this week so it's a good job that each train hadn't had a scribble or there'd be little left of the ticket. She then smiled and said 'well, I suppose I probably shouldn't have done that'.

She clearly was inexperienced and I wish her all success in the industry. But is there a chance that less pleasant members of on-train crew might object to my defaced ticket over the next few days?

 

[Hadders]

But is there a chance that less pleasant members of on-train crew might object to my defaced ticket over the next few days?

I doubt you will have any issues. You're more likely to encounter a member of staff who doesn't know what an ALR is and claim it's not valid.

Do enjoy the rest of your trip!

 

[185]

We had a winner last week with a passenger who had the most vandalized ticket known to mankind. He'd been on about 17 trains, and all I can say... GWR are to blame, they started it - by the time he left the north of England, there was only enough room for ScotRail to vandalize the remaining 2cm² of untouched ticket

 

[jupiter]

When you say "scribbled on", what exactly was written?

I can't understand what risk to revenue they think they might be mitigating??

 

[Tetchytyke]

I can't understand what risk to revenue they think they might be mitigating??

There’s general unfamiliarity with the ticket, as they’re rare.

So you can see why a guard would endorse it in the same way, and for the same reasons, they’d endorse an anytime return.

I doubt the OP will have issues. As @Hadders says, much more likely to find someone who doesn’t understand what the ALR is. And, in my experience with the Britrail pass, what that usually means is curiosity about the ticket.

 

[WestAnglian]

When you say "scribbled on", what exactly was written?

I can't understand what risk to revenue they think they might be mitigating??

No meaningful text was written, it was literally a scribble intended to indicate that the ticket had been used. I've only had it happen once before and that was a very shirty Avanti person on a full Friday morning Edinburgh - London. On that occasion I was on the way home at the end of my journey.

 

[jupiter]

So you're implying a trained, qualified guard who's responsible for the safe operation, evacuation, etc, of the train would potentially not know what a rover ticket, with boxes, is?

Either the training, assessment, or both, are woeful.

(Presumably there's a module in their training about ticket types.)

 

[StoneRoad]

Once had a "lovely" conversation with a loud transatlantic visitor over the [in-]validity of their ALR ticket.
This was on a certain North Wales narrow-gauge railway that was never in the BR network.
I recorded all the details, just in case we could get 'something' back from the big railway.
If he had had a "Snowdon Round Robin" that would have been fine, as we - eventually - got something from travel with those ...

 

[185]

I can't understand what risk to revenue they think they might be mitigating??

You've answered that question at the start of the sentence. Sadly, there are occasionally those who return to the booking office demanding a full refund claiming they've not travelled, despite three clipmarks, seven rubbed off datestamps and war and peace in biro next to the date.

 

[transportphoto]

So you're implying a trained, qualified guard who's responsible for the safe operation, evacuation, etc, of the train would potentially not know what a rover ticket, with boxes, is?

Either the training, assessment, or both, are woeful.

(Presumably there's a module in their training about ticket types.)

From my understanding EMR’s guards training includes approximately two weeks focused solely on retail, ticket validity, how to check and sell. No training can be completely exhaustive to cover every single ticket/eventuality, and the human brain can only remember so much. Initial training is a whirlwind of information.

That being said, I’d rather a guard be competent at the safety critical aspects of the job - revenue protection isn’t as crucial.

Suggesting something is woeful feels rather extreme.

The OP’s interaction here is noted to have been pleasant but makes clear that the Conductor took more than a cursory glance for their brain cogs to catchup with what they were reading (perhaps using the time to cast back to what they were told in training?)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Once had a "lovely" conversation with a loud transatlantic visitor over the [in-]validity of their ALR ticket.
This was on a certain North Wales narrow-gauge railway that was never in the BR network.
I recorded all the details, just in case we could get 'something' back from the big railway.
If he had had a "Snowdon Round Robin" that would have been fine, as we - eventually - got something from travel with those ...

If that railway happens to be the Ffestiniog or WHR(C), the All Line Rover is valid on them and has been for a very long time, a load of other NR tickets are too. So if that was the railway, then I'm afraid you were wrong. And that validity is nothing new, it's been the case well back to the 90s or before.

I've never done an ALR but never had issues with acceptance of the old North and Mid Wales Day Ranger on either of them. And I even once got a lift from a member of staff between Porthmadog and Caernarfon so I could do both on the same trip!

I can't find any evidence of a BritRail pass also having that validity, though, so being American perhaps he had that?

All Line Rover (7 Days) | National Rail

Special offer: All Line Rover (7 Days). The portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

Ffestiniog Railway & Welsh Highland Railway

At present, neither railway is running services along their full routes that would normally connect National Rail services in mid and north Wales and therefore through rail journeys between Porthmadog and Minffordd and Blaenau Ffestiniog and Bangor (via Caernarfon plus a bus) are not currently possible.

All Ffestiniog Railway and Welsh Highland Railway services are currently reservation compulsory with advance booking only until further notice. All Line Rover ticket holders should speak directly to the FR/WHR Booking Office at Porthmadog on 01766 516024 to confirm availability.

All Line Rover (7 Day) is valid for Third Class only. Upgrade to First Class on payment of an Excess (subject to availability).

Ffestiniog Railway - An excess of at least £8.00 is payable. Check directly with Ffestiniog Railway for the latest prices.
Welsh Highland Railway - An excess of at least £12.00 is payable. Check directly with West Highland Railway for the latest prices.

 

[DarloRich]

The biggest issue I had with an ALR was buying the thing! The young lad at MKC was clueless and asked me to come back later in the day when "insert name of old guy here" was on!

When I told him about the conversation with "insert name of youngster here" he just laughed! Paying for most of the first one with delay repay vouchers also went down well as you can imagine.

Either the training, assessment, or both, are woeful.

or, you know, being human someone made a mistake based on seeing an ALR once every 12000 years..................

Once had a "lovely" conversation with a loud transatlantic visitor over the [in-]validity of their ALR ticket.

An ALR is valid on the FR

 

[Jan Mayen]

How rare are ALR? I've bought four since i got the Senior Railcard in 2023. Might be a while before the next one, though.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I can't find any evidence of a BritRail pass also having that validity, though, so being American perhaps he had that?

An ALR is valid on the FR

Britrail passes aren’t valid on “privately owned railways, steam services, heritage, tourist or other leisure railways”.

If he was American it’s likely he had a Britrail pass.

Either the training, assessment, or both, are woeful.

Or they’re incredibly rare tickets that guards won’t immediately recollect.

 

[DarloRich]

If he was American it’s likely he had a Britrail pass.

fair point!

 

[Haywain]

How rare are ALR? I've bought four since i got the Senior Railcard in 2023. Might be a while before the next one, though.

When I started work in a ticket office the last thing I was shown at the end of my training was how to issue an ALR, because “you’ll never get asked for one of these.” A minute or two later I call my first customer from the queue, and what does he ask for…? I think I sold no more than 2 or 3 in the next 10 years.

 

[WestAnglian]

The biggest issue I had with an ALR was buying the thing! The young lad at MKC was clueless and asked me to come back later in the day when "insert name of old guy here" was on!

My last one, a year ago, confused the booking clerk at my local station. I wanted a week but he insisted, firmly, that only a two week version was available. There just wasn't a 7-day option on his machine.

A clerk at the next window intervened and got me my ticket without making the first clerk look stupid.

 

[D6130]

On the three occasions that I've had ALRs I've always kept them in a transparent plastic ticket wallet....making it impossible to write anything on them.

 

[WestAnglian]

From my understanding EMR’s guards training includes approximately two weeks focused solely on retail, ticket validity, how to check and sell. No training can be completely exhaustive to cover every single ticket/eventuality, and the human brain can only remember so much. Initial training is a whirlwind of information.

That being said, I’d rather a guard be competent at the safety critical aspects of the job - revenue protection isn’t as crucial.


The OP’s interaction here is noted to have been pleasant but makes clear that the Conductor took more than a cursory glance for their brain cogs to catchup with what they were reading (perhaps using the time to cast back to what they were told in training?)

I'm not sure she was a guard. Mainly she was serving first class catering.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2025 ==

I doubt you will have any issues. You're more likely to encounter a member of staff who doesn't know what an ALR is and claim it's not valid.

Do enjoy the rest of your trip!

I do this every year, roughly. I've only once has any sort of problem and that was at Southampton a couple of years ago. I showed the ticket to someone on the gateline who insisted I put it into the reader. Of course, it failed to read. He made me try again in another gate. Same result. So he snatched the ticket from me and tried another gate. When that failed he glared at the ticket for a while then handed it back, badly scrunched.

Normally they are just waved through or acknowledged with a thank you on board. On trains you'll sometimes get recognition and maybe a conversation about where you're going/been. Last week I had a chat on a Looe branch service with a guard who had never seen one before. He was genuinely interested. But I do think quite a few staff don't know what it is and accept it as the easy option.

 

[ChrisC]

On the three occasions that I've had ALRs I've always kept them in a transparent plastic ticket wallet....making it impossible to write anything on them.

I’ve never done an ALR, but whenever I have had a regional rover I always keep mine in a plastic wallet. I just show it to whoever is inspecting tickets and I have never been asked to take it out of the wallet.

 

[Polarbear]

Been a while since I last had an ALR. Although most of my trips on rovers have been incident free, I did have some issues with two conductors in Scotland once, who insisted that I needed to enter the date of travel on the boxes on the reverse of the ticket. I tried explaining that it was a 7 day ticket & not a flexi-rover, but had the ticket snatched from me on both occasions, with the conductors entering dates in the boxes & throwing the ticket back onto the table!

I appreciate that they will see many more flexi-rovers & some of those won't be dated, but the unwillingness to listen to my explanation & treat me like someone trying to evade a fare is not a pleasant experience.

 

[The exile]

I'm not sure she was a guard. Mainly she was serving first class catering

Ticket marked to show “you’ve had your freebie” without realising you can have them all week perhaps?

 

[MikeWM]

A few years back, I encountered a person on the gateline at Hartlepool who insisted she wanted to scribble on my 7-day North East Rover to show I'd used it. It took a few rounds of - increasingly slowly - saying 'it's a *rover*, why would you need to do that, what's the point of doing so?' before she eventually let me through without.

 

[Krokodil]

So you're implying a trained, qualified guard who's responsible for the safe operation, evacuation, etc, of the train

What's that got to do with a ticket?

would potentially not know what a rover ticket, with boxes, is?

Since when did an ALR have boxes?

How rare are ALR? I've bought four since i got the Senior Railcard in 2023. Might be a while before the next one, though.

Pretty rare, the number I see in a year are probably in single figures, and I work in a touristy area.

Britrail passes aren’t valid on “privately owned railways, steam services, heritage, tourist or other leisure railways”.

With the specific exception of the FfWHR

 

[The exile]

Since when did an ALR have boxes?

Sure someone could manage to issue one! No more illogical than the Bristol Freedom Travelpass monthly version, which is valid for a full calendar month, says 28 days on the ticket and is issued with a separate ticket of boxes. Why???!!!

 

[jfollows]

Sure someone could manage to issue one! No more illogical than the Bristol Freedom Travelpass monthly version, which is valid for a full calendar month, says 28 days on the ticket and is issued with a separate ticket of boxes. Why???!!!

I had one once with boxes, but that’s because Manchester Piccadilly were clueless and used the wrong ticket stock. I then had a GWR conductor insist that I date a box. Fortunately nobody else did.
Piccadilly were one up on Oxford Road, who couldn’t issue an ALR at all. Back in the 1990s.

 

[LA50041]

Since when did an ALR have boxes?

When I did a 14 day 1st ALR a few years ago I got asked for boxes by Great Western and scotrail ticket examiners, and was told by a first class host on EMR that I wasn’t entitled to catering as it wasn’t a proper ticket! The guard/conductor quickly put him right though fortunately.

Most people that were checking tickets were more interested in chatting about where I’d been/going on quieter trains as it was a rarity to see one.

 

[StoneRoad]

If that railway happens to be the Ffestiniog or WHR(C), the All Line Rover is valid on them and has been for a very long time, a load of other NR tickets are too. So if that was the railway, then I'm afraid you were wrong. And that validity is nothing new, it's been the case well back to the 90s or before.

I've never done an ALR but never had issues with acceptance of the old North and Mid Wales Day Ranger on either of them. And I even once got a lift from a member of staff between Porthmadog and Caernarfon so I could do both on the same trip!

I can't find any evidence of a BritRail pass also having that validity, though, so being American perhaps he had that?

All Line Rover (7 Days) | National Rail

Special offer: All Line Rover (7 Days). The portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

No, my bad memory - it was the BritRail Pass he had, he thought it was as ALR ...

 

[Brent Goose]

There’s general unfamiliarity with the ticket, as they’re rare.

So you can see why a guard would endorse it in the same way, and for the same reasons, they’d endorse an anytime return.

I doubt the OP will have issues. As @Hadders says, much more likely to find someone who doesn’t understand what the ALR is. And, in my experience with the Britrail pass, what that usually means is curiosity about the ticket.

It would be about ten years ago that I last had a ticket clipped or otherwise defaced by onboard train staff.

I have somewhere a return portion for a period return where the terminal station doesn’t have barriers so I suspect I could use it repeatedly during that period if I was so minded.

 

[DelW]

It would be about ten years ago that I last had a ticket clipped or otherwise defaced by onboard train staff.

I have somewhere a return portion for a period return where the terminal station doesn’t have barriers so I suspect I could use it repeatedly during that period if I was so minded.

I have experienced it regularly with return ticket portions with 30 day validity. While I appreciate the need to tackle misuse, neither random scribble nor a date is effective at that, since the ticket is legitimately still usable after that date, on uncompleted sections of the journey. All it achieves is potentially causing a legitimate user to have trouble with a later ticket check.

It might be effective if instead the guard wrote the codes for the last and next station call at the time of the check, showing where it's been used already, but I've never seen that done.