Concept Locomotive Idea?

[NightStar]

I got to messing with photoshop and a picture of a Class 20 locomotive I captured while playing Microsoft Train Simulator the other night and came up with this. I wonder if any such locos ran in the UK? This is a class 20 rebuilt and re-engined. The first batch would retain their English Electric power plants and electrical systems but would be fitted with a quieter English Electric engine. While some of the Units would get AC alternators, and still others a mixture of both new engines and alternators or generators. I am just wondering what others would think of such a rebuild of some of the class 20 locomotives into a new class of British Diesel? I am also wondering if any of the following would have been viable for repowering some of the units? What class should I call such a locomotive?

Other class of English Electric engines?

Or maybe

Napier

Crossley

Sulzer

Paxman

Mirrlee's

Ruston

Bristol-Siddeley

Maybach

Voith

MAN

Any other diesel that would fit in a UK locomotive? The idea would to be obtain 1500 HP at the wheels or even maybe 2500 HP at the wheels depending on how big of an engine could be fitted?


Robert

 

[sprinterguy]

Ah, like this mock up:
http://www.fictitiousliveries.co.uk/photo.php?20366_brb.jpg

 

[Nym]

You could have a bank of QSK19Fs and N14s and use them to make smokescreens?

Thinking seriously for a moment, what kind of power output would you be thinking for these? 1500hp is easy enough to get from any kind of marine diesel...

 

[NightStar]

Ideally 2,500HP at the rails and aleast 95 MPH speed for hauling the Nightstar train along with a Class 73 as an alternative to the Class 37/6 lashup.

Robert

 

[Yew]

You would struggle with napier, they only make turbochargers these days, I work in the same complex as them

 

[sprinterguy]

That is exactly what I was thinking! I did not know such a loco was ever built.

Robert

They weren't, it's just a clever bit of Photoshop work.

 

[Hydro]

That is exactly what I was thinking! I did not know such a loco was ever built.

Robert

It wasn't, it's a Photoshop!
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You could have a bank of QSK19Fs and N14s and use them to make smokescreens?

RVEL were touting a pair of QSK19's for their 73 re-engineering project.

 

[Nym]

Well, they wouldn't need to be QSK19Fs, a standard QSK19 would be fine, but the're well out of production now, and I'm sure theres better products coming out of Huddersfeild...

 

[NightStar]

That photo shop job sure fooled me! I am afraid I do not know a whole lot about British diesels since I live across the pond. However I find English railways fascinating. I get tired of the same old stuff you see over here. All the units look the same these days! I wonder if a EMD 567 would fit on the class 20 frame? If it would then surely a cat 3516 or 3512 would work as well. I wonder if GE makes anything suitable for repowering the class 20? While I am at it. How suitable is the Class 60 for conversion into a passenger diesel?

Robert

 

[sprinterguy]

I find English railways fascinating. I get tired of the same old stuff you see over here. All the units look the same these days!

Robert

It's amusing that there's more than a few posters on this forum resident in Britain who say exactly the same thing about British train classes. The grass is always greener...

 

[Hydro]

All the units look the same these days!

That's pretty much the story here, but fortunately there are still some idiosyncracies from the 1955 Modernisation Plan clinging onto life.

 

[Nym]

That photo shop job sure fooled me! I am afraid I do not know a whole lot about British diesels since I live across the pond. However I find English railways fascinating. I get tired of the same old stuff you see over here. All the units look the same these days! I wonder if a EMD 567 would fit on the class 20 frame? If it would then surely a cat 3516 or 3512 would work as well. While I am at it. How suitable is the Class 60 for conversion into a passenger diesel? And lastly I am interested in knowing why no GE built diesels have arrived in the UK?

Robert

Not very, it runs to a maximum of 60mph and is geared to pull heavy freight, also doesn't provide ETH (Power for carriges) since it was designed only to haul freight. So if it was a 60 carriage passenger train in the summer, you'd be fine...

But nah, the speed restriction and lack of new coaching stock compared to the availablilty of Class 57 locomotives at the moment means theres a slim chance of anyone wanting to convert one (especially with 67s available) and if they did, it is geared and setup wrong for passenger services.

 

[sprinterguy]

Not very, it runs to a maximum of 75mph and is geared to pull heavy freight, also doesn't provide ETH (Power for carriges) since it was designed only to haul freight. So if it was a 60 carriage passenger train in the summer, you'd be fine...

The class 60s have a maximum speed of 60mph to the best of my knowledge, not 75mph.

 

[Nym]

I put 60... honest, didn't just edit it....

 

[NightStar]

Any of these suitable for English loading gauge?

GE

Cat

Wisconsin

Detroit

Cummins

These are only some of the diesel engines that are available. See these two links for a more complete list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Electrical_generation_engine_manufacturers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Marine_engine_manufacturers

My favorite English diesel is the Class 37.

Robert

 

[Nym]

Depends on how you mean suitable?

I know of products from GE, Cat, Detroit and Cummins that will fit within the UK Loading Gauge, weather the're powerful enough, and would meet emissions standards is another thing... I don't know Wisconsin's products well enough to comment, but having seen products from all the above companies, chances are that some would fit...

 

[NightStar]

Emissions would be second to finding something to fit in the loading gauge? This is all what if anyways.

Robert

 

[DXMachina]

I'd have thought if one concept really ought to be worked on right now, it's a high power diesel locomotive that's light enough and short enough that the frame can provide space for transformer, power pickup and rectifiers without compromising its ability to go most places that current diesels go...

I'm aware now of all the controversies about bi-mode but you can't escape the amount of diesel thats being burnt to run freight trains that have to go off-wires for significant distances.. and I still hold that putting bi-modes on certain services will allow maximum economic benefit to be gained from any extensions and set a good precedent for further investment.

 

[LE Greys]

That photo shop job sure fooled me! I am afraid I do not know a whole lot about British diesels since I live across the pond. However I find English railways fascinating. I get tired of the same old stuff you see over here. All the units look the same these days! I wonder if a EMD 567 would fit on the class 20 frame? If it would then surely a cat 3516 or 3512 would work as well. I wonder if GE makes anything suitable for repowering the class 20? While I am at it. How suitable is the Class 60 for conversion into a passenger diesel?

Robert

Curiously, one of Mr Hodgson's other works involved a Class 66 with flattened sides extended all the way to the solebar, rounded cab roofs and smoothed corners. To me, American designers always seem to have most of a locomotive's innards exposed, which might make it easier to maintain them, but doesn't add much to the general appearance of such a design. Some of the older ones with the full-width body and "bulldog" nose are very nice-looking machines, but I think they were designed for passenger work, and I suppose it doesn't matter much to a freight customer what a loco looks like, provided it can pull a train. It also seems a bit odd if you only have one cab, or even no cab at all. Maybe standards are just different, and have always been so. I don't know of any other country that produced so many inside-cylinder steam engines, elegant but impractical, as this one did.
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I'd have thought if one concept really ought to be worked on right now, it's a high power diesel locomotive that's light enough and short enough that the frame can provide space for transformer, power pickup and rectifiers without compromising its ability to go most places that current diesels go...

I'm aware now of all the controversies about bi-mode but you can't escape the amount of diesel thats being burnt to run freight trains that have to go off-wires for significant distances.. and I still hold that putting bi-modes on certain services will allow maximum economic benefit to be gained from any extensions and set a good precedent for further investment.

Actually, there's another good point. Most locos ordered since the Modernisation Plan have been getting bigger and bigger, leaving some trains seriously overpowered. We've all seen a 66 coming through with half a dozen ballast wagons on the rear. A sort of "Baby Shed" Type 3 would be ideal for all sorts of duties, certainly a lot better than having Type 5s hauling sandite trains all over the place.

 

[HSTEd]

You could always delete one of the cabs on the Cl70 to make room in the frame for a transformer, and either run them in pairs, on fixed formation freight rakes (MGR Coal comes to mind) or permanently couple a simple four wheel van with a driving cab and (if necessary) additional electrical equipment to it.
Making the vehicle single ended also removes the need for those side mounted walkways if the equipment can be arranged to be maintained by removing side panels, increasing the volume available.

Unless you are willing to accept the operational overhead of having to keep turning the loco around, you could just fit a camera to the back of the locomotive as has been done on Cl20s.