Completion of electrification

[Ironside]

Given the recent announcements on electrification how long will it take to role out electrification over the rest of the railway?

I am assuming a similar level of funding to that that has been promised. I also appreciate that there may be remote parts of the network that may not be worth electrifying.

 

[kjhskj75]

All current form of transport will be obsoleted by transporter beams before the whole network gets wired.

How much gets done depends on politics more than anything else, and that's unpredictable.

 

[WatcherZero]

All the announced electrification only increases the proportion electrified by a few percent, so even at this rate it will take decades to wire everywhere.

 

[mattdickinson]

Given the recent announcements on electrification how long will it take to role out electrification over the rest of the railway?

I am assuming a similar level of funding to that that has been promised. I also appreciate that there may be remote parts of the network that may not be worth electrifying.

About 40% is electrified, and the HLOS proposal will see approximately another 5% done over the next 5 to 10 years, so at that rate it would take over 50 years.

 

[JohnB57]

We tend to think we're years behind "benchmark" countries such as Germany when it comes to electrification, but the reality is that we're not so far adrift. The most recent figures I could find for Germany were for 2005 when 48% of the network was electrified.

Who here would want to see certain lines electrified anyway? West Highland, Cambrian, Cumbrian Coast, etc, etc. Can anyone imagine wires over Rannoch Moor? And as long as non-electric traction has to be made available for these remaining lines, justification to electrify will be very difficult.

 

[HSTEd]

We tend to think we're years behind "benchmark" countries such as Germany when it comes to electrification, but the reality is that we're not so far adrift. The most recent figures I could find for Germany were for 2005 when 48% of the network was electrified.

Who here would want to see certain lines electrified anyway? West Highland, Cambrian, Cumbrian Coast, etc, etc. Can anyone imagine wires over Rannoch Moor? And as long as non-electric traction has to be made available for these remaining lines, justification to electrify will be very difficult.

Well you could argue that the southern third or so of the Cumbrian Coast could be done to allow the nuclear freights to and from sellafield to be operated by electric traction (possibly even electric FMUs).
Especially if nuclear power expands to the level that is required.


But even so, most of these lines can be single end fed anyway so if the political decision was made it is probably easily manageable.

 

[sprinterguy]

Well you could argue that the southern third or so of the Cumbrian Coast could be done to allow the nuclear freights to and from sellafield to be operated by electric traction (possibly even electric FMUs).
Especially if nuclear power expands to the level that is required.

There's nuclear traffic from the north into Sellafield as well though, that would otherwise have to negotiate an extremely circuitous route, and DRS' main motive power depot is at the north end of the Cumbrian Coast route in Carlisle, although they do now also have a well established base at Crewe.

Not that I'm in disagreement with the idea of electrifying a southern portion of the Cumbrian coast: I would like to see the line electrified as far as Barrow so that the route could maintain direct links with Manchester following North West electrification.

 

[JohnB57]

Well you could argue that the southern third or so of the Cumbrian Coast could be done to allow the nuclear freights to and from sellafield to be operated by electric traction (possibly even electric FMUs).
Especially if nuclear power expands to the level that is required.


But even so, most of these lines can be single end fed anyway so if the political decision was made it is probably easily manageable.

There are certainly environmental arguments for electrifying the whole of the network. But my point was that there will always be those lines where the visual impact would be just too great and which because of the relatively light use, in PPM terms, could never justify such huge investment. So we'll always need diesels, or hydrogen-electric, or whatever.

I just watched the first part of a cab view journey from Glasgow to Fort William and that's what prompted me to post. This is linked elsewhere on the forum so apologies for the duplication, but it's worth two mentions.

 

[DXMachina]

There is a certain tipping point where, if the majority of main-lines are wired then the benefits of infill projects soar.

Can't see electrification reaching the Looe branch any time soon though, or the West Highland Line.

 

[9K43]

The electrification of Leeds/Skipton Area started in March 1992 and finished in 1996.

I know this as Healey Mills crews worked all the trains out/back to Doncaster.
Much money was earned on these jobs and were popular with some folk and not with others

 

[Pen Mill]

We tend to think we're years behind "benchmark" countries such as Germany when it comes to electrification, but the reality is that we're not so far adrift. The most recent figures I could find for Germany were for 2005 when 48% of the network was electrified.

Who here would want to see certain lines electrified anyway? West Highland, Cambrian, Cumbrian Coast, etc, etc. Can anyone imagine wires over Rannoch Moor? And as long as non-electric traction has to be made available for these remaining lines, justification to electrify will be very difficult.

I lived and travelled in France for 8 years until 2010 and they have plenty of non-electrified lines mainly cross-country type lines which will probably never be electrified. The line from Bordeaux to Lyon (Towns number 9 and 3 population wise) which is a tortuous route of about 430 miles only has electrification at the extremes.

They completely modernised their diesel fleet with 117 2 car units from 1997/2002 + 318 (yes 318) single car vehicles (2001-06)and finally 163 3 and 4 car sets (2004-2008)_ Thats nearly 600 !
On top of that they've introduced 326 bi-mode sets so I think that diesel will be around in France for a littletime to come !

 

[Ironside]

That's interesting that the uk isn't so far behind the electrification of old lines on the continent. It's a shame that that it's going to take 40-50 years to electrify the lines that need doing seems but at least there is a will to do something.

 

[Proud Salopian]

At least the pace of electrification is quickening now in GB.

 

[jon0844]

All current form of transport will be obsoleted by transporter beams before the whole network gets wired.

When that happens, I suggest against trying to use split ticketing...

 

[GRALISTAIR]

At least the pace of electrification is quickening now in GB.

Agreed - I think all lines to Exeter will eventually follow, thence to Plymouth and I hope Penzance. I think politically Crewe-Holyhead will happen and also a good chunk of Scotland. Once Sheffield is reached York and Leeds and Doncaster will follow as will Birmingham-Derby etc. As another poster has pointed out, once big chunks get done, the infill cases justification improves dramatically. To answer the OP question, I think 55% of the network will be done by 2030.

 

[tbtc]

I think a more meaningful stat would be the percentage of track with a half hourly service that is wired (since infrequent rural lines like the Heart Of Wales/ Far North/ West Highland add up to hundreds of miles but are never going to justify that level of investment).

If CP6 sees the logical extensions to CP5 electrification (Sheffield to Leeds/ Doncaster, Derby to Birmingham etc) plus the line from Marylebone to Worcester then we will be making real leaps forward.

 

[Proud Salopian]

I can't see any line in Shropshire being electrified this side of 2030... the Shrewsbury-Wolverhampton line should be first (would make a good extension to the West Midlands electrified commuter network) but it wouldn't surprise me too much if another line (Welsh Marches?!) is first.

 

[Requeststop]

We tend to think we're years behind "benchmark" countries such as Germany when it comes to electrification, but the reality is that we're not so far adrift. The most recent figures I could find for Germany were for 2005 when 48% of the network was electrified.

Who here would want to see certain lines electrified anyway? West Highland, Cambrian, Cumbrian Coast, etc, etc. Can anyone imagine wires over Rannoch Moor? And as long as non-electric traction has to be made available for these remaining lines, justification to electrify will be very difficult.

There are remote area's of the Uk electrified. Lancaster-Carlisle-Carstairs being one that comes to mind. So why not Rannoch Moor, Highland Line, Holyhead and beyond Exeter? When they come to any fruition is of course highly debatable.

I am happy about the proposed electrification schemes. I hope they all come off successfully. There are so many gaps in the network though. Brum-Brissle-Cardiff and Swindon-Gloucester another that springs to this west country mind. Others such as these, are well pubicised not only here but in other publications.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

Lancaster-Carlisle-Carstairs being one that comes to mind.

If that wasn't electrified then Glasgow-London services couldn't be electric. It's the West Coast mainline which connects the biggest cities of England and Scotland as well as a whole host of other major cities.

 

[OxtedL]

There are remote area's of the Uk electrified. Lancaster-Carlisle-Carstairs being one that comes to mind. So why not Rannoch Moor, Highland Line, Holyhead and beyond Exeter?

I think the answer is blindingly obvious:
Lancaster-Carlisle-Carstairs leads to some kind of very significant settlement (two in fact), whereas Rannoch Moor et al do not.

 

[lancastrian]

We tend to think we're years behind "benchmark" countries such as Germany when it comes to electrification, but the reality is that we're not so far adrift. The most recent figures I could find for Germany were for 2005 when 48% of the network was electrified.

Who here would want to see certain lines electrified anyway? West Highland, Cambrian, Cumbrian Coast, etc, etc. Can anyone imagine wires over Rannoch Moor? And as long as non-electric traction has to be made available for these remaining lines, justification to electrify will be very difficult.

To be honest, it all depends upon political will. If the Government decides to Electrify line we might think are not worth it, it will happen. To see a system that is I think about 98% electrified, just look at Switzerland. The only lines that are not electric are a couple of short lines that are basically Heritage Lines, run by steam trains.

As to whether such lines like the West Highland, Cambrian Coast, even the Highland line. They all could be electrified IF there is the political will. As the oil runs out, even our short-sighted politicians will have to consider the whole rail system being electrified.

 

[Proud Salopian]

Well, it's either electrification or hydrogen-powered trains! HMUs anyone?

(If nothing around Shrewsbury gets electrified then it would be fun to see Shrewsbury as the country's first hydrogen fuelling depot! )