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Competence development manager (CDM) vs DTM

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BTU

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So this is more of an advice wanted question but I have been offered both of these roles I do know what both roles involve although I am less familiar with the DTM role, my question is what are the pros and cons of both roles? and which role would most people go for given the choice and why.
Thanks in advance for your opinions which are always valid and sound.
 
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Highlandspring

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Control duty manager?
Competence development manager?
Custard doughnut muncher?
 

ComUtoR

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CDM seems to be flavour of the month. Personally I'd be bored to tears within a month. Depending on which TOC you go for will depend if you keep your licence.
 

ComUtoR

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It's a one dimensional role. I'm sure that many people do get a lot out of it and there is a job for everyone but for me I don't think I would feel rewarded. As a Driver, and yes its a very boring job at times, I find that I'm actually doing something. I'm not being insulting but I find it to be a bit of a paper shuffling role and box tickers more than anything. With a Driver Manager role you are more involved and can have a positive impact on your team etc and can make a contribution.

As a more anecdotal explanation. I started work as a Zero Hour Christmas temp. I gradually worked my way up the ladder and eventually became a Manager. The higher up I got, the more disconnected I felt. As a Manager I was very hands on and supported my team. As I started to climb the Management ladder I again, lost that connection and felt a little squished in the middle. You get pressure from above and pressure from below. The higher you go, the more corporate you have to be.

From the CDMs that I speak to, they are similar. You tend to be more company focussed rather than staff focussed. You tend to live in your office and you do, shuffle paper all day long. A lot of people suit a Management role and a lot f people enjoy being office based. There will be a certain sense of fulfilment when you have a team of Drivers and Managers who are hitting all those beautiful KPIs and you can get a strong sense of achievement when all your paper has been pushed, T's crossed and I's stamped firmly with a sharp point. I'm not knocking the job, just that its not for me.

I also don't feel that the role will exist in the long term. I like the security of being a Driver and I like knowing that I can transfer that to any location in the country. Not all TOCs have CDMs and the Driver/Management structure is certainly a shifting landscape. So again, I would swerve a CDM if I didn't get to keep my driving competency. One of our Drivers left to be a CDM at Southern and he has kept his competency and has to drive the standard 2hrs a month to keep it.
 

BTU

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It's a one dimensional role. I'm sure that many people do get a lot out of it and there is a job for everyone but for me I don't think I would feel rewarded. As a Driver, and yes its a very boring job at times, I find that I'm actually doing something. I'm not being insulting but I find it to be a bit of a paper shuffling role and box tickers more than anything. With a Driver Manager role you are more involved and can have a positive impact on your team etc and can make a contribution.

As a more anecdotal explanation. I started work as a Zero Hour Christmas temp. I gradually worked my way up the ladder and eventually became a Manager. The higher up I got, the more disconnected I felt. As a Manager I was very hands on and supported my team. As I started to climb the Management ladder I again, lost that connection and felt a little squished in the middle. You get pressure from above and pressure from below. The higher you go, the more corporate you have to be.

From the CDMs that I speak to, they are similar. You tend to be more company focussed rather than staff focussed. You tend to live in your office and you do, shuffle paper all day long. A lot of people suit a Management role and a lot f people enjoy being office based. There will be a certain sense of fulfilment when you have a team of Drivers and Managers who are hitting all those beautiful KPIs and you can get a strong sense of achievement when all your paper has been pushed, T's crossed and I's stamped firmly with a sharp point. I'm not knocking the job, just that its not for me.

I also don't feel that the role will exist in the long term. I like the security of being a Driver and I like knowing that I can transfer that to any location in the country. Not all TOCs have CDMs and the Driver/Management structure is certainly a shifting landscape. So again, I would swerve a CDM if I didn't get to keep my driving competency. One of our Drivers left to be a CDM at Southern and he has kept his competency and has to drive the standard 2hrs a month to keep it.
Thanks for such a detailed reply I agree I would never do a job if I could not keep my key, for me its a case of being a little settled and not so roster/shift based I slightly favour the CDM role because I think that being a DTM is just to close to a line manager role which is mostly office based and then there is the day to day dealings with the drivers ie discipline, sick, and the usual moans and groans, but I do see your point entirely. I also agree that the higher you go the more you distance yourself and the more you get micro managed which I hate the idea of, again as a CDM you are suitably distanced form the hierarchy and you spend much time with the drivers. I certainly have no intention of climbing any higher up that greasy pole.
 

ComUtoR

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Research the role and how the TOC operates it. As I say, it seems to be a bit of a changing landscape and there is a wide variety within the grade. We don't have them as yet but I can see it happening when our franchise changes and our Driver Manager role splitting. There is even a current rumour that the Instructor grade is changing and more responsibility is being handed to them :/
 

BTU

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I have heard the same rumour regarding the instructor grade. I think I will try and find out more about the DTM role as I am very clued up on the CDM role.
Did you mean that you might be getting the CDM role at your TOC? And how is your ex colleague finding it over at GTR? was he a driver? or was he already in management?
 

ComUtoR

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He was a Driver at Southern, came to us as a Driver, then left to be a CDM at Southern. He said he enjoys the role and its as you said, more linked to the Drivers than other CDMs and he keeps his key. He also said that keeping his key was very important.

I suspect we will get them. As more TOCs get them I think we will simply follow the crowd. I've been told that the Instructor role is changing and that they are just waiting for the franchise to change before they roll out anything major. We have the eCMS system (electronic competency management system) and the Instructors are alleged to be getting that; which would upgrade them something akin to the CDM role but more in line with the Team Leader role at MTR. The DM's get bumped to a more office based role and more of a Management Only role akin to a DTM and potentially a loss of driving competence

I think it's MTR that have the DTM role and is the current model that Driver Management is heading towards. We lost 2 Driver Managers to MTR. One went for the Driver Team Leader role (Instructor/Manager) and the other went for the DTM role. Maybe someone who works for Crossrail could give you a much better insight to how they work.

As your clued up to the CDM role. Would you stay that is more a support role or a closer DTM/CDM working arrangement ?
 

BTU

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I would not say it is a support role but they do work very closely with the line managers/DTM's but not so close that you get sucked into their world entirely its more of a case that if a driver has had a incident then you would carry out the initial investigation and help them formulate an action plan before passing them onto their manager, or if their manager had some issues with their competency or anything driving related then you would work with them to resolve that problem, you run development days and do sim training as well as ICAs and ride outs, assessments, comfort rides, route briefs TOLO work, radar gun(not a lover of that), so you are as you say far more aligned to the drivers. You are far more involved with drivers than managers which is what draws me more to that role than the DTM.
 

ComUtoR

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You seem clear on your choice. Maybe you just needed the final push :)

Good luck with it.
 

BTU

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I have a good understanding of both roles just looking for the things you don’t tend to know until you start doing the job Stigy.
 

Stigy

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I have a good understanding of both roles just looking for the things you don’t tend to know until you start doing the job Stigy.
Sorry, I misread your post, I thought I deleted it before anyone would read it. :lol:
 
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