compensation + Southern rail strike action

[Jerrymouse]

So I have an annual season ticket from Leighton Buzzard to London, zones 2-6.

I work in Hammersmith and catch one direct train that lasts 57 minutes from LBZ to Shepherds bush then walk or bus it down to Hammersmith.

As ASLEF are stopping all drivers from overtime and Southern not got enough drivers now, they have pulled my direct service AGAIN.

What exactly can I claim for on delay/repay, can I claim for no train EVERYDAY or can I only claim for the difference in my old 57 minute journey and my new hassle journey?

so new journey and times mean I have to walk 20 mins to station I no longer get a lift (guessing thats my tough luck). At the station I catch the 8:13 to Euston, this takes 45 mins. then walk to Euston Square which takes 10 mins and then tube plus waiting time is around 35 mins to Hammersmith station.

so am I only allowed to claim for 30 minutes which is the difference between my old journey to Shepherds bush and my new journey which takes me to Hammersmith and near the office but is 90 minutes now. Any advice much appreciated. My new journey doesn't sound too bad BUT I cannot get on any train earlier than 8:30am as they are all packed. This means I get into work around 10:15 so have to work late and rarely see my son before his bed time now. The train home at Euston is so stressful and people literally run from the concourse to the platforms when platform is announced. Thanks in advance as I genueinely only want to claim correct entitlement but it seems unfair I pay £5000 a year for a train I cant catch. I only moved to Leighton Buzzard because of this direct service into Shepherds Bush.

 

[andythebrave]

Btw the 0746 from Leighton Buzzard will have seats as it starts at Bletchley (as do the 0545 & 0640).

 

[bb21]

Yes, you can claim for the delay to your journey every day, although be warned that if you travel earlier and arrive at the same time, you will not be entitled to any delay compensation, only if you are delayed arriving.

The is the problem with Delay Repay. You no longer get automatic refunds if a period of poor performance is experienced. You have to claim for every journey.

I know this is now too late but relying on a service like this one down the West London Line is never a good idea for essential daily commute especially if it only runs hourly which means you have little flexibility. It is far from the core operating area of the train company, has convenient alternatives (although not always as quick), likely to have less crew signing the route, so is likely to be the first one to be pulled should things go a little wobbly.

 

[Jerrymouse]

Btw the 0746 from Leighton Buzzard will have seats as it starts at Bletchley (as do the 0545 & 0640).

WOW didnt know this, thanks so much, thats incredibly helpful

 

[Jerrymouse]

Yes, you can claim for the delay to your journey every day, although be warned that if you travel earlier and arrive at the same time, you will not be entitled to any delay compensation, only if you are delayed arriving.

The is the problem with Delay Repay. You no longer get automatic refunds if a period of poor performance is experienced. You have to claim for every journey.

I know this is now too late but relying on a service like this one down the West London Line is never a good idea for essential daily commute especially if it only runs hourly which means you have little flexibility. It is far from the core operating area of the train company, has convenient alternatives (although not always as quick), likely to have less crew signing the route, so is likely to be the first one to be pulled should things go a little wobbly.

Yes, sadly I know now and too late as you say but my son is settled in school etc and we do really love Leighton Buzzard as a place

 

[Jerrymouse]

Yes, sadly I know now and too late as you say but my son is settled in school etc and we do really love Leighton Buzzard as a place

so hold on, if I catch say 7:46 and arrive in EARLIER than my old southern line that got me in at 9:24 I am not entitled to anything?

I thought you claim for journey time ... sounds like you are saying anything I claim is based on how long after 9:24 I arrive ?

 

[andythebrave]

so hold on, if I catch say 7:46 and arrive in EARLIER than my old southern line that got me in at 9:24 I am not entitled to anything?

I thought you claim for journey time ... sounds like you are saying anything I claim is based on how long after 9:24 I arrive ?

You 'could' plan on the 0713 Southern. Not saying anything about the morality of that though.

 

[100andthirty]

I know this is now too late but relying on a service like this one down the West London Line is never a good idea for essential daily commute especially if it only runs hourly which means you have little flexibility. It is far from the core operating area of the train company, has convenient alternatives (although not always as quick), likely to have less crew signing the route, so is likely to be the first one to be pulled should things go a little wobbly.

I empathise with this, but isn't it a sad state of affairs when it has to be said. In some parts of the country, they would be delighted with an hourly train service.

This service has grown from nothing into something that is really useful. If only they sorted out the connections at Willesden/Wembley........

 

[gray1404]

You can claim delay repay on Southern for delays of 15 minutes or more. That is based on arrival time at your destination station (how you choose to get to and from the station and what time you actually get to work is not relevant)

Could you please post the details of what train you usually catch. You might want to also do the same for the journey home.

We can then work out the next available trains in light of the Southern service being cancelled and work out what you are able to claim for. You can claim for each and every journey for which you are delayed by 15 minutes or more and you should claim within 28 days of the date of travel.

 

[bb21]

so hold on, if I catch say 7:46 and arrive in EARLIER than my old southern line that got me in at 9:24 I am not entitled to anything?

I thought you claim for journey time ... sounds like you are saying anything I claim is based on how long after 9:24 I arrive ?

No. You claim for the delay to your journey, based on final arrival time at your destination, not journey duration.

If your planned arrival is 0730 with a departure time of 0630, for example, and you arrive at 0730 after taking the 0530 because of an awareness of potential problems en route, then you are not delayed regardless of when you departed your origin.

If your planned arrival is 0730, and you arrive at 0830 because the next journey opportunity is leaving on the 0730 instead of the 0630, then you are delayed for 60 minutes.

It is not a perfect system, but none of them are. It is a fairly simple system, and the DfT chose to stick with this one, so unfortunately, it is all based on arrival time.

 

[Dent]

No. You claim for the delay to your journey, based on final arrival time at your destination, not journey duration.

If your planned arrival is 0730 with a departure time of 0630, for example, and you arrive at 0730 after taking the 0530 because of an awareness of potential problems en route, then you are not delayed regardless of when you departed your origin.

If you take the 0530 which should arrive at 0630, but it doesn't arrive until 0730, then the journey most definitely has been delayed. That you might have taken a later train in a different hypothetical scenario is irrelevant.

 

[bb21]

If you take the 0530 which should arrive at 0630, but it doesn't arrive until 0730, then the journey most definitely has been delayed. That you might have taken a later train in a different hypothetical scenario is irrelevant.

If the customer intended to take the 0530 service which was due in at 0630, but only arrived at 0730, then yes, the customer has been delayed by 60 minutes.

But this is just an example for illustrative purposes of the point raised earlier regarding departing early, so let's just assume that the 0530 is a slow train and not due to arrive until 0725.

 

[Dent]

If the customer intended to take the 0530 service which was due in at 0630, but only arrived at 0730, then yes, the customer has been delayed by 60 minutes.

But this is just an example for illustrative purposes of the point raised earlier regarding departing early, so let's just assume that the 0530 is a slow train and not due to arrive until 0725.

The "point raised earlier" that they automatically don't have claim if they travel earlier than they would otherwise is not true. It the scheduled arrival time of the service used that is the benchmark, not some hypothetical "intended" arrival time.

Let's not make any more unwarranted assumptions to force a conclusion that they wouldn't have a claim, when in reality they may well have a perfectly valid claim.

 

[bb21]

The "point raised earlier" that they automatically don't have claim if they travel earlier than they would otherwise is not true. It the scheduled arrival time of the service used that is the benchmark, not some hypothetical "intended" arrival time.

Let's not make any more unwarranted assumptions to force a conclusion that they wouldn't have a claim, when in reality they may well have a perfectly valid claim.

The "point raised earlier" is based on the assumption that the OP intended to use the service they always wanted to. If they intended to use the earlier service, then the benchmark delay is measured against changes.

The intended arrival time absolutely matters. You may think it makes no difference, with the enforceability vague at best for walk-on tickets and often only honesty standing in the way, but this becomes very relevant for holders of Advance fares, who may well browse through this thread. The distinction is quite important.

 

[Dent]

The intended arrival time absolutely matters. You may think it makes no difference, with the enforceability vague at best for walk-on tickets and often only honesty standing in the way, but this becomes very relevant for holders of Advance fares, who may well browse through this thread. The distinction is quite important.

I think it makes no difference and is vague at best for walk-on tickets because it does make no difference, and it is vague at best for walk-on tickets.

If someone catches a service, and that service is delayed, then their journey has been delayed, and hence they have a legitimate claim. That is all there is to it, no hypothetical claim about what train they may have "intended" to catch in some different circumstances will change this reality.

This is nothing to do with advance tickets, this is a season ticket.

 

[bb21]

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Dent]

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

You can disagree all you like, but it won't change the fact that if they are sufficiently delayed on the service they actually took then they have a claim, and your claim that they do not is wrong.

 

[bb21]

You can disagree all you like, but it won't change the fact that if they are sufficiently delayed on the service they actually took then they have a claim, and your claim that they do not is wrong.

I successfully reported someone for fraudulent delay claims on a walk-on ticket in a similar type of scenario to that illustrated here. Not the exact same circumstances but pretty similar. Not in all cases but there are certainly ways to tell in some cases.

Not everything is black and white. I shall leave it at that. The only thing one needs is honesty (planned journey this, and actual journey this...)

 

[yorkie]

No. You claim for the delay to your journey, based on final arrival time at your destination, not journey duration.

If your planned arrival is 0730 with a departure time of 0630, for example, and you arrive at 0730 after taking the 0530 because of an awareness of potential problems en route, then you are not delayed regardless of when you departed your origin.....

If the 0530 departure is due in at 0730, yes I agree, no delay was incurred simply for departing earlier..

....if they are sufficiently delayed on the service they actually took then they have a claim...

Agreed.

 

[yorkie]

What exactly can I claim for on delay/repay, can I claim for no train EVERYDAY or can I only claim for the difference in my old 57 minute journey and my new hassle journey?

You claim for the total length of delay to your journey. Unfortunately this can be problematic to quantify.

My advice would be to aim to catch the 0713 from LBZ, due in at 0804. Aiming to arrive into the office nice and early will ensure that you achieve your aim of not having to get home too late in the evening and may assist in any delay compensation claim.

When the 0713 train is cancelled, take the next available journey opportunity, which is the 0746 (which does have room for you to board), changing at Harrow & Wealdstone & Willesden Jn, arriving Shepherd's Bush 0911. This is a total delay of 67 minutes and is a very straightforward claim.

http://www.fastjp.com/#journeys?ori...:&odate=20170906&otime=0710&maxres=11&maxch=4

(In practice you may make it a bit earlier than booked, if you are lucky with connections)

 

[bb21]

You claim for the total length of delay to your journey. Unfortunately this can be problematic to quantify.

My advice would be to aim to catch the 0713 from LBZ, due in at 0804. Aiming to arrive into the office nice and early will ensure that you achieve your aim of not having to get home too late in the evening and may assist in any delay compensation claim.

When the 0713 train is cancelled, take the next available journey opportunity, which is the 0746 (which does have room for you to board), changing at Harrow & Wealdstone & Willesden Jn, arriving Shepherd's Bush 0911. This is a total delay of 67 minutes and is a very straightforward claim.

http://www.fastjp.com/#journeys?ori...:&odate=20170906&otime=0710&maxres=11&maxch=4

(In practice you may make it a bit earlier than booked, if you are lucky with connections)

I would pretty much second the suggestion.

 

[Jerrymouse]

I empathise with this, but isn't it a sad state of affairs when it has to be said. In some parts of the country, they would be delighted with an hourly train service.

This service has grown from nothing into something that is really useful. If only they sorted out the connections at Willesden/Wembley........

The issue will get worse as so many huge estates being built on outskirts of Leighton buzzard so commuter numbers only going to increase

 

[Jerrymouse]

I would pretty much second the suggestion.

Thats incredibly helpful thank you!

 

[Jerrymouse]

If the 0530 departure is due in at 0730, yes I agree, no delay was incurred simply for departing earlier..

Agreed.

ahh thanks so much for an excellent explanation, much appreciated

 

[gray1404]

Surely its best that, for the sake of a faster easier journey, you would be better getting LM to Euston then onto the LU.

 

[Wookiee]

Surely its best that, for the sake of a faster easier journey, you would be better getting LM to Euston then onto the LU.

Not with a Zones 2-6 Travelcard.

 

[gray1404]

What about if there is ticket acceptance in place when the direct Southern service is cancelled.

 

[gray1404]

There are two SN services daily between Wafford Junction and Shepherds Bush in the morning and also in the evening in each direction. Perhaps this would suit you better as only one change of train required and you can avoid Euston and the underground.

 

[Plok77]

The ASLEF overtime ban has ended as of today. So Southern services on the West London line are now running to Milton Keynes again.