Commuting 'not coming back': Harper

[Meerkat]

Leisure travel is another “essential part of the railway”, and an essential part of the economy.

I'm sorry but if you think that then there is no point to debating the issue. Leisure travel is clearly not essential, almost by definition.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm sorry but if you think that then there is no point to debating the issue. Leisure travel is clearly not essential, almost by definition.

Our service economy would be much weaker without it. Think March 2020 - all leisure travel was legally prevented. Didn't turn out well did it?

 

[43066]

I'm sorry but if you think that then there is no point to debating the issue. Leisure travel is clearly not essential, almost by definition.

There’s little sensible debate to be had with someone who refuses to accept that rail travel, including leisure travel, has significant economic benefits.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Mar 2023 ==

Our service economy would be much weaker without it. Think March 2020 - all leisure travel was legally prevented. Didn't turn out well did it?

Indeed. An obvious point, you would have thought!

 

[Krokodil]

I'm far from an expert on the rationale, but as JonathanH says it was to do with undercutting Anytime Returns even for journeys on only one route. For example (and using current prices for simplicity), the Anytime Return (code AOR) Manchester to Euston, route any permitted, is £369.40 - meaning that an ALR at the current price but without restrictions would be cheaper if you were making that journey even twice within the ALR's period of validity.

There is a season for that route, priced at £447.00 per week, but similarly to avoid undercutting the AOR the shortest period for which the season can be issued is four weeks.

Anytime tickets on some routes are ridiculous and are only as high as they are because of capacity constraints. Hopefully HS2 will be opened in full and make supply match demand.

Notice how retail and catering are cutting back. What is so different about the railways ?

In my experience hospitality businesses are cutting their offering because they are really struggling to attract enough staff. A bit like certain TOCs.

That would be a shame. I struggle myself to get motivated and exercise my democratic right. I remind myself of all the people who died in various conflicts so that we can have these sorts of discussions and even vote. Ask an Eastern European what they think of Russia's approach to doing things we take for granted.

My ex was Hungarian. She said that apathy and poor turnout was the reason that Orban got elected. That said, it's not really the voters' fault if all of the options are so lackluster.

We can all wonder what a more socialist party would have done during Covid or now.

To be honest, I've a feeling that if Corbyn had won in 2019 he'd have struggled to raise funds to pay for furlough. The markets trusted Sunak and weren't spooked when spending ramped right up. The same might not have been true for McDonnell.

Nobody does this. You don't say "shall I use the car today or shall I sell it and exclusively take public transport from this day forward". You look at the comparative costs of doing one or the other for that journey. If the train is a stupid price, people will drive unless there is no alternative. Equally if you don't own a car already you don't say shall I take the train or buy a car for this journey instead.

There are some journeys though where habitual motorists will choose to take the train. Trips to London for example, or anything involving alcohol. This is the railway's opportunity to encourage some repeat custom by offering a fast, reliable, comfortable service. Sadly it often lets its customers down.

OK, *almost* nobody. Don't you get a substantial discount as a driver? I'd probably think about ditching the car if PT was both far cheaper and better, sadly I no longer live within walking distance of a station, and whilst the buses are temporarily good value (more than 50% off due to £2 singles), the frequency and length of service (including no Sunday service whatsoever) mean it's not realistic.

I only bought a car when I got a job with the railway. Beforehand I'd rented close enough to whichever minimum wage zero-hours seasonal job I was in at the time so that I wouldn't need a car. Cycling five miles each way to work (in one place), or making a weekly bus journey to the shops (in another) was far cheaper for someone living precariously than having to keep a money pit going.

Realistically this is only an option for people who live in London or other major conurbations with excellent public transport links, or hermits.

I've never lived in London, nor in a major conurbation (I did grow up on the outskirts of a small city, just outside the top ten, but that's as close as it got - public transport was appalling, buses did 7mph through the traffic). I'm certainly not a hermit. I am though very fit.

Thats right. It is a big decision to go go without a car but once made people will likely stick with it. Conversely (and worryingly) the opposite can and will have happened during Covid. People have gone out and bought a car which they will not give up very quickly and they will now (and for the forseable) avoid rail travel as it undermines that decision.

Quite a key workers found themselves unable to get to work with the Sunday service many TOCs reverted to when the pandemic struck. They bought cars and in many cases will have stuck with them. Those caught up in the TPE chaos may have done similar. The only way back for the railway is to run a spotlessly reliable service over an extended period of time.

Off peak fares are low to try to fill trains that exist anyway. If they are full it would suggest that BR policy should be followed and prices put up.

The UK has the most expensive walk-up fares per mile in Europe. Off peak fares have spent the last 30 years rising above the level of inflation (in some years as high as RPI+3). Fares where I live are higher than for comparable journeys elsewhere in Wales, thanks to the aforementioned BR policy. Trains are still rammed. At some point you will have to concede that a 2 car DMU isn't sufficient. See the comments made on the passenger numbers thread about the demand unleashed when GA replaced their 153s with something more suitable. A 4 car DMU needs no more crew than the 2 car one, and revenue protection/trolley income will improve as a result of staff actually being able to get through. Less money spent on reimbursing passengers who hailed taxis when they were physically unable to board a train. Fewer passengers saying "never again" after escaping from a sardine tin with faulty air conditioning. Even better you could electrify and save on maintenance. It's called "investment".

 

[Bantamzen]

I'm sorry but if you think that then there is no point to debating the issue. Leisure travel is clearly not essential, almost by definition.

It probably shouldn't need pointing out but it is essential to those businesses that rely on people travelling for leisure purposes. And as stated above the leisure industry is a very real, and important part of our economy. Put simply, you are wrong on this point.