Communication- a plea

[HSTfan!!!]

I personally try my best, but more often than not you're given no information to work with. Like today I was under the impression a train was an hour late when in fact it wasn't even running... no information what so ever given. I've often found that the systems that give us information to relay to pax go quiet when something serious goes wrong. What would you rather us make up some totally unrelated excuse or wait until we find something out - which 9 times out of 10 we're trying to find out and being distracted by people keep badgering you with stupid questions (you know the ones "whens the next train to X?" when it's on the screen clear as day and being announced as they ask.)

 

[jon0844]

From what I can see, every single train into King's Cross this morning on FCC is cancelled - but the FCC website is still saying it's running a snow timetable, with no mention of the current situation.

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The problem I have with TfL's approach to "giving passengers information" is they give the wrong sort of information. We regularly have the "good service" mantra shoveled down our throats (even when the service is up the wall).

If an auto-announcers says a good service, that's good. If it says normal service, that's bad.

And thanks for the info re. the LUL announcements after 30 seconds. Seems a bit of overkill, especially if the automatic announcement promises information than doesn't then come from what's presumably a manual announcement afterwards.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

On Tuesday night South Eastern trains announced that they would be running a reduced service on Wednesday. On the breakfast news the BBC were showing clips of people interviewed on Tuesday night and one of them was saying "how can they say they are going to run a reduced service when it's not even snowing yet!"

No doubt if SET had not said anything and tried to run a normal service He would have complained.

This is a really good idea, sadly though the majority of passengers would sit on the train and not pass on the information to newly arrived passengers

Maybe these customers need to realise the snow isn't the main problem. Ice is a fair bigger problem!

I didn't even bother with auto announcements this morning. Every time a customer came into the station (bare in mind this was before 0600 so not alot of people) I just did an announcement what was going on. Luckly all we had was Brighton train customers which handly were the only services running (and even werider, on time!).

 

[philjo]

The online departure boards on the FCC website this morning appear to have got the emergency timetable superimposed with the normal timetable, showing all services from the normal timetable as being cancelled. It think that the list of cancellations is also everything from the normal timetable - which is somehwat confusing!

When I travelled this morning, the service I got was only 2 minutes late as per the emergency timetable & it did also stop as booked at Hatfield & Potters Bar so I had a through service to Potters Bar today. Often they decide at the last minute to run them fast after Welwyn GC to finsbury Park.
I have found on numerous occasions that the stopping pattern of services on the GN route when you get to the station is different to the emergency timetable shown on the website - but today it seemed to be mainly running to time.

I had noticed that the FCC website was saying that southbound trains would not be calling at Knebworth or Welwyn North between 7:30 & 8:30am & passengers should travel via Stevenage.
The train I was on did call at both stations (& was shown on the screens at Letchworth as scheduled to do so).
At Knebworth there were a lot of passengers in the process of boarding a northbound train when we stopped - they didn't look too pleased! The screen at Knebworth was saying that our service was not scheduled to stop.
I do think that the emergency timetable should include 1 additional train per hour as a stopping service from Letchworth to Kings Cross. this would enable one of the Cambridge ones to run fast - under the emergency timetable both Cambridge services run all stations to Hatfield, Potters Bar, finsbury Park (& are very full before Hitchin). the Peterborough line trains run fast south of stevenage & I gather these were relatively empty this morning.

 

[Oswyntail]

Maybe these customers need to realise the snow isn't the main problem. Ice is a fair bigger problem!.....

And that is just another level of lack of information. Whenever something this big happens, the news bulletins lump rail in with the other transport systems as being "in chaos", when, in fact a fairly structured emergency plan is in operation. (Road generally gives up, air delays everything by several hours). What is needed is a respected, communicative central body explaining rail's situation (including the bit about ice being more difficult). So where is the ATOC representative being interviewed on every bulletin?:roll::roll:

 

[The Box Photter]

Would it not make sense for all TOCs to publish, in advance, a known timetable that will automatically be implemented in the event of severe ice/snow/wind/heat/plague of frogs etc. That way all staff will have details of the changed running patterns and at least regular users will know what to expect. I accept that sometimes circumstances may be so severe that even the contingency timetable cannot be implemented, but as most large corporate organisations have a "disaster recovery plan", the TOCs must have the same.

What annoys passengers is the apparent secrecy that surrounds any "incedent" and delays are attributed to things like "operating incedent" or "passenger action" or some other similar meaningless phrase. Just tell us if the reason why our trains aren't running is because points have failed at ....... or an ambulance has been called to help a person who has been taken ill. Then tell us what you are doing to remedy the situation and how long we will, realistically, be delayed.

 

[jopsuk]

Would it not make sense for all TOCs to publish, in advance, a known timetable that will automatically be implemented in the event of severe ice/snow/wind/heat/plague of frogs etc.

"due to a failure in the fabric of reality, we have implemented a stadard fallback timetable. Customers are warned that trains may not be real, and may not travel in the direction they appear to be going. Customers are thanked for staying calm during the end times."

 

[RPM]

As a driver I have to say it really pays to keep the punters informed when there is a delay - it helps to avoid irate passengers banging on the cab door or haranguing you when the train gets to its destination!

There are difficulties though. As SWT Driver has already said, it can be hard for the driver to find out what is causing the delay. There's only so many times you can make announcements to say you still don't know anything before it starts really annoying people.

It can also be hard to think of ways of explaining the reasons for a delay in terms that the average passenger will understand. It involves steering a course between an overtly technical, jargon-ridden explanation and a meaningless, bland one. This isn't a skill that all railway staff posess.

And even though you might be able explain the causes of a delay, that doesn't interest most people. They want to know how long the delay is going to be which is the one thing you really can't say.

 

[Oswyntail]

...And even though you might be able explain the causes of a delay, that doesn't interest most people. They want to know how long the delay is going to be which is the one thing you really can't say.

Yes, but a genuine "I don't know but I will let you know as soon as I hear anything" is equally acceptable

 

[Tom B]

Yes, but a genuine "I don't know but I will let you know as soon as I hear anything" is equally acceptable

Yep - I'd far prefer staff to admit they don't know what's going off, then sit in the back cab with feet up having a cigarette!

 

[GodAtum]

I think the major problem is when the electronic boards at stations dont work and nobody announces the trains that come in which is really annoying!

 

[ukrob]

+1.

Stating that you are unsure what the delay is yourself and that you will pass on information as you get it is far more preferable than remaining silent.

 

[Old Timer]

Stooged around at New St first thing this morning when the whole Up London peak service collapsed for the second day running and yet again absolutely no information forthcoming as to why and so making it impossible to judge the best course of action.

Yesterday the National Rail Enquiries website showed everything running OK, (as it did yesterday) and this morning only the first two Down services were shown as running late. Everything else was shown as OK at 0650.

At New St, Virgin was just cancelling each of the London services towards departure time, even though for example the 0750 stock was not expected in until 0930ish it was still showing as on time initially.

Eventually punters were put on a cross country service to Nuneaton where the next London service was then reported as being 20 late. When it arrived the restaurant had run out of food even though the First Class was not that busy :roll::roll: Ye Gods !

Had they announced the real problem (a freight train failure I am told) it would have been better to sit it out bearing in mind how long the job had then been stood.

Never did find out what ocurred in London to cause the first two Down services to be heavily delayed.

This week has demonstrated to me that we (the Industry) really DO have a major problem, which bearing in mind the lengths we go to on Infrastructure to ensure we do not affect services, feels as if we are being let down by the very people who are the first to criticise if we over-run by a few minutes. Talk about living in glass houses :roll::roll:

 

[mackenzie_blu]

And that is just another level of lack of information. Whenever something this big happens, the news bulletins lump rail in with the other transport systems as being "in chaos", when, in fact a fairly structured emergency plan is in operation. (Road generally gives up, air delays everything by several hours). What is needed is a respected, communicative central body explaining rail's situation (including the bit about ice being more difficult). So where is the ATOC representative being interviewed on every bulletin?:roll::roll:

That a very good point but way above my level. Its not hard to say at least we're running a service at speeds you would be insane to drive in under these conditions.

Would it not make sense for all TOCs to publish, in advance, a known timetable that will automatically be implemented in the event of severe ice/snow/wind/heat/plague of frogs etc. That way all staff will have details of the changed running patterns and at least regular users will know what to expect. I accept that sometimes circumstances may be so severe that even the contingency timetable cannot be implemented, but as most large corporate organisations have a "disaster recovery plan", the TOCs must have the same.

What annoys passengers is the apparent secrecy that surrounds any "incedent" and delays are attributed to things like "operating incedent" or "passenger action" or some other similar meaningless phrase. Just tell us if the reason why our trains aren't running is because points have failed at ....... or an ambulance has been called to help a person who has been taken ill. Then tell us what you are doing to remedy the situation and how long we will, realistically, be delayed.

Thats a really bad idea. Every disprution is different and one size all would cause more harm than good. For example if you had a problem where your slow lines were out of us and you tried to use the same plan as a complete block then you'd end up with no service.

There are plans, for exmaple on the Thameslink side of FCC, there is 30 odd plans with if this happens this should be done. The hard work in figuring out what needs to be done has already been done. Whats needed it sticking to these plans but lately something else has come along and destroyed any chance of this plans.

There is also what they call the white period where people who have the ability to change things are too busy to actually go around telling the railway and get on with fixing this. This tends to be the first hour so little information comes out offically so staff then have to try and deal with this. As for manual announcements, well if staff are unsure which leads to no announcements. The railway, or rather from my point of view, is getting better at getting the information out there quicker but its never going to be quick enough as the effects are instant.

Plus Im sure you would or the public would complain if the TOC had trains sat around because they stuck to one plan to the letter and let the chance of additional services for the people caught up in the disprution to have helped out.

Stooged around at New St first thing this morning when the whole Up London peak service collapsed for the second day running and yet again absolutely no information forthcoming as to why and so making it impossible to judge the best course of action.

Yesterday the National Rail Enquiries website showed everything running OK, (as it did yesterday) and this morning only the first two Down services were shown as running late. Everything else was shown as OK at 0650.

At New St, Virgin was just cancelling each of the London services towards departure time, even though for example the 0750 stock was not expected in until 0930ish it was still showing as on time initially.

Eventually punters were put on a cross country service to Nuneaton where the next London service was then reported as being 20 late. When it arrived the restaurant had run out of food even though the First Class was not that busy :roll::roll: Ye Gods !

Had they announced the real problem (a freight train failure I am told) it would have been better to sit it out bearing in mind how long the job had then been stood.

Never did find out what ocurred in London to cause the first two Down services to be heavily delayed.

This week has demonstrated to me that we (the Industry) really DO have a major problem, which bearing in mind the lengths we go to on Infrastructure to ensure we do not affect services, feels as if we are being let down by the very people who are the first to criticise if we over-run by a few minutes. Talk about living in glass houses :roll::roll:

The countdown machines have one massive problem. If a train doesn't move then it assumes that the train is on the move and doesn't add a delay. Its only once it picks it up again that it manages to correct itself. It doesn't help that inbetween sections there can be black spots where trains dissapear and reappear causing problems for staff trying to track the trains and manual update CIS like alot of staff do.

i think we all know things can be done differently but until its really tested how can we know if a system works.

 

[jon0844]

Would there be plans to use GPS to track trains in the future, such as that now used by London buses (before it was based on passing fixed points) and many other services around the world?

Obviously it would be a secondary system to the current one - as GPS could fail and the system used to transmit the (miniscule) amounts of data - but it would add an additional 'input' into the live running database.

Many trains now have GPS fitted for other purposes already.

 

[The Box Photter]

Message to Mr Blu - FCC only has one plan, make all trains all stations to Bedford and send the punters who don't want to travel cattle class via Kentish Town to Luton by East Midlands Trains, then let the staff at Luton deal with the problem.

So far this year I've had more mileage in EMT Meridians and hired-in road coaches than I have in Class 319s.

 

[krus_aragon]

Would there be plans to use GPS to track trains in the future, such as that now used by London buses (before it was based on passing fixed points) and many other services around the world?

Obviously it would be a secondary system to the current one - as GPS could fail and the system used to transmit the (miniscule) amounts of data - but it would add an additional 'input' into the live running database.

Many trains now have GPS fitted for other purposes already.

And many more will have it fitted for ERTMS: it's a key component.

 

[Ferret]

This week has demonstrated to me that we (the Industry) really DO have a major problem, which bearing in mind the lengths we go to on Infrastructure to ensure we do not affect services, feels as if we are being let down by the very people who are the first to criticise if we over-run by a few minutes. Talk about living in glass houses :roll::roll:

You should've had a word with the muppets working on "Gateway" who loused the job up today! Whoopsidaisy, shouldn't have cut *that* cable Gromit!:roll:

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Message to Mr Blu - FCC only has one plan, make all trains all stations to Bedford and send the punters who don't want to travel cattle class via Kentish Town to Luton by East Midlands Trains, then let the staff at Luton deal with the problem.

So far this year I've had more mileage in EMT Meridians and hired-in road coaches than I have in Class 319s.

Well I said they had them not they use them. That is purely down to control to do.

This year meaning 2010?