Common misconceptions on this forum

[Mark_re]

That Class 165/166s are built 'to a wider loading gauge', to take advantage of the Great Western's wider gauge, so meaning that they can't be used anywhere else. An urban myth, but a persistent one. 142s are wider and the sectional appendix until recently banned 165/166s from platform 4 (?) at Scarborough.

 

[Emyr]

I've never recorded train numbers and don't have any interest in doing so, probably because I don't travel by train frequently enough or see enough of the network to make it worthwhile.

Sorry to be obtuse, but can you clarify how this activity might be worthwhile were you to find yourself with time to indulge in it?

 

[northwichcat]

One I forgot about yesterday - people thinking a 7 day railway would mean the peak time extras would operate on a Sunday.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That Class 165/166s are built 'to a wider loading gauge', to take advantage of the Great Western's wider gauge, so meaning that they can't be used anywhere else. An urban myth, but a persistent one. 142s are wider and the sectional appendix until recently banned 165/166s from platform 4 (?) at Scarborough.

The 165s and 166s are the same width as other trains which have 3+2 seating but I think they're the only diesel stock which have carriages that wide and are at least 23m in length. However, EMUs like the 323s and 333s are the wider width and have carriages at least 23m in length.

 

[Tetchytyke]

That its the TOCs fault for every single delay, this irritates me especially when it's down to a suicide or cable theft,

Are you sure that's a misconception on here? I've not seen it. Most people understand that in our transparent and cost-effective privatised railway a suicide is the fault of Network Rail, who have to cough up millions in compensation and fines accordingly.

PS Saying that the TOC should pass on NR's compensation to the people who are actually inconvenienced- the passenger- is not blaming the TOC for the suicide.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

That Class 165/166s are built 'to a wider loading gauge', to take advantage of the Great Western's wider gauge, so meaning that they can't be used anywhere else. An urban myth, but a persistent one. 142s are wider and the sectional appendix until recently banned 165/166s from platform 4 (?) at Scarborough.

It's also a myth that loading gauge is only the width of the train and nothing whatsoever to do with length*, height or the bogie position* of the vehicle.

[* Strictly speaking it has nothing to do with length of vehicle or bogie position but both contribute to 'over-hang' on bends]

 

[Beveridges]

The most common misconception on this site seems to be that enthusiasts know more about the railway than the people who actually work for it?

No but enthusiasts who also work on the railway generally know what they're talking about!

 

[Beveridges]

Most common misconception on this forum? Without doubt:

Everyone who works on the railway wants to be a mainline driver

 

[455driver]

"My idea for xxxxxx" which usually borders on assumptions that there would be enough resources, pathing etc., to accommodate anything that is dreamt up.

You forgot the 20 new trains needed to make it viable!

 

[43074]

here are a few, more quotes than misconceptions but you can count them as misconceptions .

7. I am not a spotter I am an enthusiast

For some that is a misconception: I think most younger enthusiasts (who indulge in the spotting hobby), prefer to be called ''enthusiasts'' as opposed to ''spotters'', which appears to have the negative connotations of being an anorak attached to it, despite this being the case.

However, in my case, I admit that whilst I do note the numbers of the trains I have photographed, I do not go to the effort of trying to spot new trains by spending hours on the end of Platform 3; I am more interested in the planning and operations of the railway.

 

[Beveridges]

I don't primarily call myself a spotter or an enthusiast even though I do not care about being called a trainspotter despite being a railway professional as well. The best and most correct term for enthusiasts/spotters is railfans (just as you'd call someone who likes football a football fan - BTW I do not follow football at all)

 

[alwaystouchout]

For some that is a misconception: I think most younger enthusiasts (who indulge in the spotting hobby), prefer to be called ''enthusiasts'' as opposed to ''spotters'', which appears to have the negative connotations of being an anorak attached to it, despite this being the case.

However, in my case, I admit that whilst I do note the numbers of the trains I have photographed, I do not go to the effort of trying to spot new trains by spending hours on the end of Platform 3; I am more interested in the planning and operations of the railway.

Good point. I think there is a valid distinction between 'enthusiasts' and 'spotters.' I'm interested in the railway, enjoy using the rail network and want to it grow and thrive, however I'm not particularly interested in 'spotting,' or at least logging the numbers of each loco/multiple unit that passes. That said, I don't like the unfavourable connotations attached to being an anorak either.

The biggest misconception I've seen on here is that simply because two arbitrarily chosen stations on a rail atlas don't have a direct connection, one is desperately needed and the trains, paths and patronage are instantly available..

 

[GatwickDepress]

Please calm down. I never said or implied that the forum was an official source and I have no idea if there is any any official information on this subject.

My last experience was on the Hastings/Ashford route. NRE clearly states that the train conveys standard accom. only. It only quotes a standard class fare and does not offer a first class upgrade. The NRT says "all services in this timetable convey standard accommodation only unless otherwise shown" and the train does not have the (1) symbol. The train has first class which I sat in. The guard hid in the back cab for the entire journey so I have no idea if I was right or wrong but as a fare paying passenger I still maintain that it was logical that I should sit there. After all,there cannot have been any fare-paying first class passengers who might have objected can there? Also,the train was pretty full and if the 6 or so in FC had moved it would have made standard even fuller.

It would be interesting to know why Southern have always advertised this service as standard only when the only diesel trains they have all have first class.

Due to overcrowding on the Ashford - Brighton services, all 171/7 services were formally declassified by Southern in early 2011.

First class ticket holders on the East Coastway may choose to use the Ore - London Victoria/Brighton services instead, which are operated with 377s.

The 171/7s retain first class as they often swap with other 171s at Selhurst and work on the Uckfield line, where first class accommodation is provided.

Southern aren't too good at announcing declassified first class... probably because everyone would rush over for the bigger seats, power socket, larger table...

 

[bb21]

One that really grates me - The guard must be lazy because he did not check tickets throughout my journey.

 

[ryan125hst]

Sorry to be obtuse, but can you clarify how this activity might be worthwhile were you to find yourself with time to indulge in it?

What I mean is that I don't see enough trains currently to "spot" them and record their numbers for the purpose of clearing them all, so I have no interest in recording the numbers of trains that I see/travel on. If, in the future, I spend a far larger amount of time travelling by train, and visit many other areas of the UK rather than sticking to Retford-York/Sheffield/Meadowhall as I seem to do at the minute (as I rarely have the need to go anywhere else and don't have the time to do so), then I may change my opinion and start recording train numbers.

And don't get me started on "if they sell food they have to provide toilets by law"....

So that's why ice cream vans now have a trailer with a Portaloo on it...

 

[alastair]

Due to overcrowding on the Ashford - Brighton services, all 171/7 services were formally declassified by Southern in early 2011.

First class ticket holders on the East Coastway may choose to use the Ore - London Victoria/Brighton services instead, which are operated with 377s.

The 171/7s retain first class as they often swap with other 171s at Selhurst and work on the Uckfield line, where first class accommodation is provided.

Southern aren't too good at announcing declassified first class... probably because everyone would rush over for the bigger seats, power socket, larger table...

Thanks for this info. Its ironic,isnt it, that declassified FC on the 171's is quite good with a seperate compartment and 2 & 1 seating,whereas on the 377's FC is just a few different lables with virtually no difference from standard(apart from hopefully a better chance of getting a seat).

I have to say the logic of declassifing FC due to overcrowding, but then failing to advertise the fact,does rather escape me!

 

[richw]

Are you sure that's a misconception on here? I've not seen it. Most people understand that in our transparent and cost-effective privatised railway a suicide is the fault of Network Rail, who have to cough up millions in compensation and fines accordingly.

PS Saying that the TOC should pass on NR's compensation to the people who are actually inconvenienced- the passenger- is not blaming the TOC for the suicide.

Not specifically on here, although I'm sure I've seen it, but a major misconception on twitter.
Why does NR compensate for suicide, surely it's out of their control?

 

[Muzer]

Someone has to compensate, such is the system we have. You could theoretically say that they could do more to secure the line from trespassers, though I'm not sure if TOCs are the ones putting the suicide gates up on the fast lines at some stations or if that's Network Rail...

 

[PermitToTravel]

I believe that if access was from a platform then the TOC running the station pay for the delay minutes.

 

[Muzer]

Ah, if that's the case, then everything makes perfect sense.

 

[Flamingo]

One that really grates me - The guard must be lazy because he did not check tickets throughout my journey.

No, that's true
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I believe that if access was from a platform then the TOC running the station pay for the delay minutes.

Ok, that explains the latest briefing at spotting potential jumpers on platforms...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That Wales can have a not-for-profit railway, just by willing it.
(Isn't it unprofitable enough already?...)

 

[Bald Rick]

I believe that if access was from a platform then the TOC running the station pay for the delay minutes.

Not so; if the individual ends up on the track it's NRs fault. This was tested at an early Delay Attribution Board which resolved that as the track access contract is a separate contract to the station access contract, the fact that someone accessed the infrastructure from a station does not change the penalties liable under the track access contract.

Please don't shoot the messenger.

 

[PermitToTravel]

*sigh*
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry, I've checked the DAG and found what I was getting that rule confused with: fatalities or injuries on the track are only a TOC's fault if caused by the person falling from one of said TOC's trains.

 

[maniacmartin]

The biggest misconception I've seen on here is that simply because two arbitrarily chosen stations on a rail atlas don't have a direct connection, one is desperately needed and the trains, paths and patronage are instantly available..

Haven't you played Transport Tycoon?

 

[bb21]

No, that's true

I heard it was only true if the guard were pink and fluffy.

 

[ComUtoR]

1)Any staff member who makes a mistake should be sacked or retrained.

2)TOCs have spare staff and stock sat around doing nothing which can be put into service at a moments notice but the TOCs prefer to run their trains crush loaded for a laugh.

On the first point if you make a mistake then the route cause should always be identified and retraining should be considered. I will agree in advance that some mistakes pretty much need nothing more than a smacked wrist and a gentle reminder but even then a small measure of retraining is still advised (even jst re reading the rule book module concerned)

On the second. (not deliberatly baiting you but...) Rosters have SP turns and Cover turns (a respected driver told me) Those are indeed spare drivers whose purpose is to cover any incidents and problems that occur on a seemingly daily basis. Spare stock is also not a falacy. If you travel past Grove Park depot or Slade Green you will see plenty of units sitting in the sidings for most of the day. These are often used to cover the service when things go up the creek.

Personally I don't see either of those as a misconception. I'm more than happy to be enlightened and reeducated (in another thread ofc)


A misconception I notice more than ever is. "Perceptions are assumed to be reality"

 

[455driver]

On the first point if you make a mistake then the route cause should always be identified and retraining should be considered. I will agree in advance that some mistakes pretty much need nothing more than a smacked wrist and a gentle reminder but even then a small measure of retraining is still advised (even jst re reading the rule book module concerned)

But the first call for any staff error on here is sacking/retraining, on the rest of your point i do agree with you!

On the second. (not deliberatly baiting you but...) Rosters have SP turns and Cover turns (a respected driver told me) Those are indeed spare drivers whose purpose is to cover any incidents and problems that occur on a seemingly daily basis. Spare stock is also not a falacy. If you travel past Grove Park depot or Slade Green you will see plenty of units sitting in the sidings for most of the day. These are often used to cover the service when things go up the creek.

Re spare drivers-
There are indeed 2 types of spare drivers,
There are the cover turns which are booked jobs and will be there for if anyone has a lay in or goes sick at the last minute, we have 2 of these each day, one early turn and one in the afternoon out of a depot of 70 drivers.

Then there are as ordered turns, these are used to cover for people on holiday, reported sick earlier or uncovered turns and will be advised on the 36 hour sheet what duty and times they are working. These can have their start times moved by 2 hours each way, finish times moved and duty length altered to suit the duty they are covering. It is only really when the holidays are finished that these drivers will have a chance of sitting spare, 95% of the time they will pick up a full turn. Other companies will have different arrangements but the principal will be the same.

Re spare stock-
Go past in the middle of the morning or evening rush hour and see how much stock is in there!
That stock will either be on routine maintenance or broke in some way, very little of it will be spare in the true sense.

Personally I don't see either of those as a misconception. I'm more than happy to be enlightened and reeducated (in another thread ofc)

Just because trains are in a depot it doesnt naturally follow that they are fit or available for service, a train might be perfectly fine but if it is out of hours then it cannot be used unless lots of hoops are jumped through first.

Thats controllers jumping through hoops not the train!

A misconception I notice more than ever is. "Perceptions are assumed to be reality"

Very true!

 

[DarloRich]

That the words 'diagram' and 'schedule' are interchangeable.

That the randomised headcodes used by RTT and similar websites actually mean something and that one can look informed by using them.

This

The most common misconception on this site seems to be that enthusiasts know more about the railway than the people who actually work for it?

oh and this

 

[thenorthern]

One I see quite a lot all penalty fares were incorrectly issued because they were issued to me and I must therefore see if there is any technicality so I can get out of paying it.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Re spare stock-
Go past in the middle of the morning or evening rush hour and see how much stock is in there!
That stock will either be on routine maintenance or broke in some way, very little of it will be spare in the true sense.

Ah, but on Saturdays and Sundays much of the stock won't either be on routine maintenance or broken. It'll be parked in the depot to keep the track access charges down or, in the case of trains bought with maintenance contracts based on mileage, to avoid paying more money out to Siemens.