Comet

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just thinking of what the shopping areas of many town centres used to look like with numerous well-known names to the fore, such as Woolworths, then to compare what these areas are like these days. Recently, Argos have announced the contraction of the number of their retail outlets (Wilmslow was one of the losers in that move), stating the internet was the "way forward". We all know how the large out-of-town retail parks have also been a cause of this demise of town-centre shopping.

Shopping in town centres used to be a totally different experience in days long since gone..:roll:

 

[swj99]

Retail parks draining the life blood out of town centres. Seems to be happening in many places now.

Anyone heard of a book by Robert Beckman called The Downwave ? He made a lot of accurate predictions about the recession that happened in the early 90s. He said a recession (market self correction) happens when an economy expands at an unsustainable rate.

Loads of copies on ebay if anyone's interested.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313&_nkw=the+downwave&_sacat=0&_from=R40

 

[Butts]

Just thinking of what the shopping areas of many town centres used to look like with numerous well-known names to the fore, such as Woolworths, then to compare what these areas are like these days. Recently, Argos have announced the contraction of the number of their retail outlets (Wilmslow was one of the losers in that move), stating the internet was the "way forward". We all know how the large out-of-town retail parks have also been a cause of this demise of town-centre shopping.

Shopping in town centres used to be a totally different experience in days long since gone..:roll:

Dudley in The West Midlands is a typical example of that - when I moved there in the late eighties it had all the "Big Stores"....

M&S, Littlewoods, Woolworths, plus Beatties a big Department Store and many others.

The nearby Merry Hill Centre was in it's embryonic stages but has since eclipsed Dudley plus Halesowen , Stourbridge, Cradley Heath and many other nearby centres including Brierley Hill where it actually is. Dudley lost a lot of the stores to Merry Hill and I'm not sure if Beatties is still open.

Parking is often the key, it's free at theses centres and chargeable in Town Centres

 

[jon0844]

Another factor is that people with less disposable income are changing their purchasing habits. You might buy less clothes, keep your shoes a little longer (or even repair them rather than replace them), but you still have things you want to carry on doing - like being able to keep your iPhone, and go out for a drink/meal.

So, many town centres are now seeing that the most successful places are the likes of Costa or Starbucks. It's hard to imagine that if you haven't got loads of money, you might waste £2+ on a coffee but people do.. and they can sit out for as long as they want, perhaps meeting up with friends and - ultimately - spending less money than shopping.

Whether it's sustainable to suddenly fill a town centre with 1001 cafes and coffee shops remains to be seen, but I must admit that I now seem to spend more time in town having a bite to eat and a drink than looking in shops. Partly because I buy a lot of stuff online and partly because I feel that I can do without a lot of things.

I hope the town centre will never totally die, but I doubt it will ever look the same again. I expect the retail parks will eventually begin to suffer a similar fate (perhaps this is why you're now seeing Costa/Starbucks etc appearing at retail parks and even inside many shops).

 

[Heinz57]

Just thinking of what the shopping areas of many town centres used to look like with numerous well-known names to the fore, such as Woolworths, then to compare what these areas are like these days. Recently, Argos have announced the contraction of the number of their retail outlets (Wilmslow was one of the losers in that move), stating the internet was the "way forward". We all know how the large out-of-town retail parks have also been a cause of this demise of town-centre shopping.

Shopping in town centres used to be a totally different experience in days long since gone..:roll:

I agree, Ilkeston town centre used to be vibrant, attractive and very busy. With loads of shops. People used to travel to shop here.

Now its just a dismal place. There's only a hand full of 'multiples' (known shops - game etc). The rest are eithere struggling 'indapendants' or run down and empty. Even on the busyest shopping days the down is desterted. When we lost Woolworths we did manage to 'cling on' for a short while longer because our Argos store was in the centre. That is until shortly after when they announced they were to move from the town centre to the retail park to open a bigger 'extra' store, when that happend that was that for the town.

Our retail park is literaly within walking distance of the town centre, with a regular bus passing. So, even those who don't drive and are less able to get around can still make it down there. In addition, our large Tesco extra is literaly at the bottom of town - cross the road from the town centre and your there. Plus Morrisons will soon be building a new store at the top of town, again within walking distance of the town centre.

 

[telstarbox]

Are we ever likely to see rail tickets sold cheaper online than at stations, as HMV do with many of their products? (which is why their shops are struggling...)

 

[Butts]

Are we ever likely to see rail tickets sold cheaper online than at stations, as HMV do with many of their products? (which is why their shops are struggling...)

Yes East Coast do it already !!

 

[Smudger105e]

I agree, Ilkeston town centre used to be vibrant, attractive and very busy. With loads of shops. People used to travel to shop here.

Now its just a dismal place. There's only a hand full of 'multiples' (known shops - game etc). The rest are eithere struggling 'indapendants' or run down and empty. Even on the busyest shopping days the down is desterted. When we lost Woolworths we did manage to 'cling on' for a short while longer because our Argos store was in the centre. That is until shortly after when they announced they were to move from the town centre to the retail park to open a bigger 'extra' store, when that happend that was that for the town.

Our retail park is literaly within walking distance of the town centre, with a regular bus passing. So, even those who don't drive and are less able to get around can still make it down there. In addition, our large Tesco extra is literaly at the bottom of town - cross the road from the town centre and your there. Plus Morrisons will soon be building a new store at the top of town, again within walking distance of the town centre.

I will be moving out of Ilkeston early next year (bought a house in Long Eaton), but I don't see how the town can support a Morrison's on the SED college campus, that will finifh off South Street and Bath Street completely.

 

[Butts]

I will be moving out of Ilkeston early next year (bought a house in Long Eaton), but I don't see how the town can support a Morrison's on the SED college campus, that will finifh off South Street and Bath Street completely.

It beats me why the number of Supermarkets must have quadrupled in the last 25 years - the population certainly hasn't.

 

[Roverman]

What I don't get is that we're in a recession, people are struggling to make ends meet, pay bills etc so why are we building more shops and supermarkets? Crazy, why not force businesses to use, adapt and improve existing infrastructure?

I also find it amazing that people baulk at paying circa £2 for 2 hours parking but will spend that (and more) on frothy coffee that lasts less than 10 minutes!

 

[Butts]

What I don't get is that we're in a recession, people are struggling to make ends meet, pay bills etc so why are we building more shops and supermarkets? Crazy, why not force businesses to use, adapt and improve existing infrastructure?

I also find it amazing that people baulk at paying circa £2 for 2 hours parking but will spend that (and more) on frothy coffee that lasts less than 10 minutes!

Or a readymeal

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It beats me why the number of Supermarkets must have quadrupled in the last 25 years - the population certainly hasn't.

It is very noticeable indeed to see the expansion of the non-food sections in the supermarket chains these days.

 

[Roverman]

It is very noticeable indeed to see the expansion of the non-food sections in the supermarket chains these days.

I'm told thats where the profit is. Its actually nothing new, Sainsburys had massive 'Savacentre' stores in the 1970s.

 

[Butts]

I'm told thats where the profit is. Its actually nothing new, Sainsburys had massive 'Savacentre' stores in the 1970s.

Yes (Oldbury) but nowhere near as many

 

[wintonian]

I'm told thats where the profit is. Its actually nothing new, Sainsburys had massive 'Savacentre' stores in the 1970s.

That's odd, Tesco are trying to exit the leases on all their Homeplus stores in order to concentrate on the core grocery business.

 

[Roverman]

I'm not convinced Tesco know what they are doing anymore, they've dropped profits, marketing campaigns have bombed, last Christmas their gift range was shockingly bad. Yet Sainsburys seem to just keep going, something like 25 quarters of positive growth?#

 

[wintonian]

I'm not convinced Tesco know what they are doing anymore, they've dropped profits, marketing campaigns have bombed, last Christmas their gift range was shockingly bad. Yet Sainsburys seem to just keep going, something like 25 quarters of positive growth?#

Tesco has a large international business and has done for some years whilst I don't think Sainsburys does (both Tesco & Sainsburys have closed the Calais stores) so I don't know how much (if any) of this could be contributed to the overseas side.

With things like this you need to know what you are comparing and make it as like for like as possible.

 

[richw]

I'm not convinced Tesco know what they are doing anymore, they've dropped profits, marketing campaigns have bombed, last Christmas their gift range was shockingly bad. Yet Sainsburys seem to just keep going, something like 25 quarters of positive growth?#

A lot of Sainsbury's growth is down to them expanding. Sainsburys said in their press release they believe it is down to all the new local stores they've opened.

 

[Butts]

A lot of Sainsbury's growth is down to them expanding. Sainsburys said in their press release they believe it is down to all the new local stores they've opened.

Remember J Sainsbury were once no 1 in the UK Grocery Market - currently they are number 3 after Tesco and Asda.

So they have "a lot of growing to do"

 

[richw]

Until about 3 years ago, we had 1 sainsbury's in all of cornwall. Now there are six, with another in the planning stages for the penzance heliport land.
Sainsburys have also been following in the steps of Tesco Metro, with many "corner shop" style stores.
The Nectar card scheme is something which i find works well for me, being able to spend your points without waiting for vouchers to come like Tesco, and getting vouchers at the checkout near enough every shop.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Remember J Sainsbury were once no 1 in the UK Grocery Market - currently they are number 3 after Tesco and Asda.

So they have "a lot of growing to do"

Which takes us back to my earlier posting of their recent decision to increase the non-food store sections in their stores.

 

[radamfi]

The Nectar card scheme is something which i find works well for me, being able to spend your points without waiting for vouchers to come like Tesco, and getting vouchers at the checkout near enough every shop.

What would be even better would be to get a lower price to start with, instead of paying a higher price then getting rebates in vouchers at a later date.

 

[wintonian]

Until about 3 years ago, we had 1 sainsbury's in all of cornwall. Now there are six, with another in the planning stages for the penzance heliport land.
Sainsburys have also been following in the steps of Tesco Metro, with many "corner shop" style stores.
The Nectar card scheme is something which i find works well for me, being able to spend your points without waiting for vouchers to come like Tesco, and getting vouchers at the checkout near enough every shop.

I remember when Sainsburys in Christchurch opened (94/ 95) at the time it was the largest in the country and the merest Sainsburys to us 15 miles away and still is to where I lived I think. There was also a 2 part Tesco in Lymington 8 miles away (one side of the road was food the other homeware) but otherwise it was the Co-operative or more likely Safeway or until the early 90's Gateway (bought out by Somerfield I think?).

 

[snail]

What would be even better would be to get a lower price to start with, instead of paying a higher price then getting rebates in vouchers at a later date.

Better for who though? That's Asda's approach but more customers shop at Tesco. Do people really think about Clubcard or Nectar rebates when they are looking at prices, or think "I'll go to Tesco/Sainsbury's and use my card to get something back later"? The 'Loyalty Premium" is pretty strong in marketing terms.

It's not just groceries, either: if I want petrol I'll mentally deduct 1p a litre from BP prices because I know I will get that back in Nectar points.

 

[Butts]

Why is Tesco so profitable even with this latest hiccup in it sales.

I like to use the Baked Bean analagy....

My suspicion is that Tesco are the single biggest purchaser of Heinz Baked Beans in the UK by a wide margin.

Outwith promotions you will find amazingly Tesco, Asda, Sainsburys and Morrisons sell them at an identical price.

I suspect Tesco has paid less than the other three hence has a higher margin, if you multiply this factor by hundreds or indeed thousands of products you start to get the picture.

They are selling more of just about everything and at a higher margin hence their profitability.

 

[wintonian]

Why is Tesco so profitable even with this latest hiccup in it sales.

I like to use the Baked Bean analagy....

My suspicion is that Tesco are the single biggest purchaser of Heinz Baked Beans in the UK by a wide margin.

Do they still use Heinz fro there own brand stuff then? If so I'll have to stop buying it.

 

[Butts]

Do they still use Heinz fro there own brand stuff then? If so I'll have to stop buying it.

Have you got something against Heinz ?

 

[wintonian]

Have you got something against Heinz ?

I've boycotted them ever since they pulled an advert some years ago to satisfy the bigotry of the Daily Hate readership.

 

[Yew]

Dont forget that sicne the mess up last year, tesco have been tightening their belts in wages by quite a lot. sSo much that In my old store we didnt do date checks for tomorrow, we only threw out stuff on that days date. It was quite annoying realising that one of the poduct lines you threw out today could have paid for someone to reduce it the day before, and hence save the store money overall.

 

[wintonian]

Dont forget that sicne the mess up last year, tesco have been tightening their belts in wages by quite a lot. sSo much that In my old store we didnt do date checks for tomorrow, we only threw out stuff on that days date. It was quite annoying realising that one of the poduct lines you threw out today could have paid for someone to reduce it the day before, and hence save the store money overall.

At least Tesco do date checks, I have on a couple of occasions come home from Sainsburys with something (a dairy product last time I think) around 3 months out of date, if I have forgotten to check the dates in store. This is something they have been fined for.