Cold buses

[roughyed]

A few years ago I travelled on a very cold bus in west Yorkshire. At the end of the journey I asked the driver why it was so cold, his reply amazed me. Apparently the fitters turn the heaters off in winter to maintain the optimum temperature of the engine and in summer they turn the heaters on, again for the health of the engine.
I have experienced very hot buses in the height of summer with the heater full on, so maybe he was correct.

 

[Geordie driver]

A few years ago I travelled on a very cold bus in west Yorkshire. At the end of the journey I asked the driver why it was so cold, his reply amazed me. Apparently the fitters turn the heaters off in winter to maintain the optimum temperature of the engine and in summer they turn the heaters on, again for the health of the engine.
I have experienced very hot buses in the height of summer with the heater full on, so maybe he was correct.

Yep, welcome to 21st century UK.

Bus companies see nothing wrong with this behaviour.

Customer focused?

 

[TheSmiths82]

It seems a bit mad but I it wouldn't surprise me. Since 1986 bus travel has become a second class system for people who have no choice. Hopefully things will start to improve with deregulation. That said I was on a Stagecoach yesterday while it was a bit cold the heater was working.

 

[Flying Snail]

Often there is a thermostatic valve to stop the coolant circulating through the heaters until it reaches a certain temp in the engine so it may be this rather than the mechanics doing it.

 

[Busaholic]

Since 1986 bus travel has become a second class system for people who have no choice. Hopefully things will start to improve with deregulation.

All that was basically the Ridley/Thatcher message back in the day. Do you mean re-regulation?

 

[RJ]

Bus companies see nothing wrong with this behaviour.

Broad generalisation there. All of my fleet has working passenger saloon heating, I've gone to significant lengths to ensure this is the case. Passengers are even opening the windows in the current weather conditions.

One suddenly went cold the other day (unless the bus was braking or going downhill) and I bought a new boost pump the day this was discovered, reconnected it and opened the valves which allow the hot cooling water to flow through the system.

 

[Geordie driver]

Broad generalisation there. All of my fleet has working passenger saloon heating, I've gone to significant lengths to ensure this is the case. Passengers are even opening the windows in the current weather conditions.

One suddenly went cold the other day (unless the bus was braking or going downhill) and I bought a new boost pump the day this was discovered, reconnected it and opened the valves which allow the hot cooling water to flow through the system.

All 3 of the big operators in my area - GNE, Arriva, and Stagecoach - routinely send out vehicles at the height of summer with the heaters jammed on and in the middle of winter with no heaters at all.

I have been suspended in the past for refusing to drive a bus with the heaters jammed on in the summer.

 

[Towers]

The other problem here is that, in my recent experience, there is still a proportion of bus users who seem to feel the need to open the sodding windows regardless of the weather; presumably a hangover from Covid days - a couple of weeks back I rode on a Stagecoach service and was mildly horrified to see the first hopper window still had some sort of nonsense sticker on it about “protecting” everyone with fresh air, and was open accordingly - it was freezing!

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

The other problem here is that, in my recent experience, there is still a proportion of bus users who seem to feel the need to open the sodding windows regardless of the weather; presumably a hangover from Covid days - a couple of weeks back I rode on a Stagecoach service and was mildly horrified to see the first hopper window still had some sort of nonsense sticker on it about “protecting” everyone with fresh air, and was open accordingly - it was freezing!

Some first buses are going about like this in Glasgow.

 

[175mph]

The other problem here is that, in my recent experience, there is still a proportion of bus users who seem to feel the need to open the sodding windows regardless of the weather; presumably a hangover from Covid days - a couple of weeks back I rode on a Stagecoach service and was mildly horrified to see the first hopper window still had some sort of nonsense sticker on it about “protecting” everyone with fresh air, and was open accordingly - it was freezing!

Every so often, there is an elderly guy who gets on the bus route I frequently travel on and insists that every single window must be open, and anybody who dares to disagree with him, he either tells them to get off the bus if they don't like it, threatens to drag them off the bus himself or demands to the driver that they remove who disagrees with him from the bus, (none of the drivers ever give into his demands). Several passengers, including myself have complained about his selfish behavior.

Having said that, the Enviro 300 I traveled home on tonight on that bus route felt rather cold despite every window closed.

 

[JD2168]

The other problem here is that, in my recent experience, there is still a proportion of bus users who seem to feel the need to open the sodding windows regardless of the weather; presumably a hangover from Covid days - a couple of weeks back I rode on a Stagecoach service and was mildly horrified to see the first hopper window still had some sort of nonsense sticker on it about “protecting” everyone with fresh air, and was open accordingly - it was freezing!

A number of Stagecoach Yorkshire buses carry the ‘this window can’t be closed’ sticker & the very large ‘please keep the windows open to aid ventilation’ sticker on the window. At least one still has a ‘masks must be worn’ sticker on the cab door.

A number of First South Yorkshire buses still have the little blocks on the windows preventing them from fully closing.

 

[K4016td]

You're lucky if you still see buses with heaters actually. As far as I can remember eg. First's Streetlites & Enviros do not have them - in addition the condensation on single glazing makes them smell of damp in winter, absolutely horrible.

 

[Spsf3232]

Every so often, there is an elderly guy who gets on the bus route I frequently travel on and insists that every single window must be open, and anybody who dares to disagree with him, he either tells them to get off the bus if they don't like it, threatens to drag them off the bus himself or demands to the driver that they remove who disagrees with him from the bus, (none of the drivers ever give into his demands). Several passengers, including myself have complained about his selfish behavior.

Having said that, the Enviro 300 I traveled home on tonight on that bus route felt rather cold despite every window closed.

Be lucky I'm not the driver as I will remove the problem from the bus and it will be him. I have no time for people like that

 

[Towers]

You're lucky if you still see buses with heaters actually. As far as I can remember eg. First's Streetlites & Enviros do not have them - in addition the condensation on single glazing makes them smell of damp in winter, absolutely horrible.

Do they not pump the coolant around the saloon?

 

[K4016td]

Do they not pump the coolant around the saloon?

As far as I can remember some of these do not have the heaters running along the saloon like the previous buses used to have, you can only feel slight breeze from around the steps near second axle area through a vent which feels more like a little space heater. I'll take a picture next time I am on board of one of these.

 

[M803UYA]

Every so often, there is an elderly guy who gets on the bus route I frequently travel on and insists that every single window must be open, and anybody who dares to disagree with him, he either tells them to get off the bus if they don't like it, threatens to drag them off the bus himself or demands to the driver that they remove who disagrees with him from the bus, (none of the drivers ever give into his demands). Several passengers, including myself have complained about his selfish behavior.

Having said that, the Enviro 300 I traveled home on tonight on that bus route felt rather cold despite every window closed.

At risk of going OT, If I was driving the vehicle, I'd be removing the passenger. Under this legislation. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1990/1020/contents/made

I haven't fully reproduced the legislation below, but b, k & m are the relevant parts. It hasn't been fully removed by the 2015 amendment which makes reference to disabled passengers - the OP hasn't mentioned whether the passenger concerned has a concessionary bus pass issued on those grounds. Company would know, and have some fun handling the resulting chaos.

The conduct of passengers​

6.—(1) No passenger on a vehicle shall–
(b)put at risk or unreasonably impede or cause discomfort to any person travelling on or entering or leaving the vehicle, or a driver, inspector, conductor or employee of the operator when doing his work on the vehicle;

(k)remain on the vehicle, when directed to leave by the driver, inspector or conductor on the following grounds–

(i)that his remaining would result in the number of passengers exceeding the maximum seating capacity or the maximum standing capacity marked on the vehicle in accordance with the Public Service Vehicles (Carrying Capacity) Regulations 1984(1);

(ii)that he has been causing a nuisance; or

(iii)that his condition is such as would be likely to cause offence to a reasonable passenger or that the condition of his clothing is such that his remaining would be reasonably expected to soil the fittings of the vehicle or the clothing of other passengers;

(l)play or operate any musical instrument or sound reproducing equipment to the annoyance of any person on the vehicle or in a manner which is likely to cause annoyance to any person on the vehicle; or (m) intentionally interfere with any equipment with which the vehicle is fitted.

 

[Busaholic]

At risk of going OT, If I was driving the vehicle, I'd be removing the passenger. Under this legislation. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1990/1020/contents/made

I haven't fully reproduced the legislation below, but b, k & m are the relevant parts. It hasn't been fully removed by the 2015 amendment which makes reference to disabled passengers - the OP hasn't mentioned whether the passenger concerned has a concessionary bus pass issued on those grounds. Company would know, and have some fun handling the resulting chaos.

I'm both elderly and disabled. to the extent that I shall probably not be able to travel on a bus again, but if that guy tried to lean over me to do that I'd give him a piece of my mind, if not my stick.

 

[M60lad]

From what I can gather/been told in the past one of the main reason why drivers might have the heaters on during summer is actually to keep the engine cool as sometimes (I think dependent on the vehicle) it would stop the vehicle overheating.

 

[Geordie driver]

From what I can gather/been told in the past one of the main reason why drivers might have the heaters on during summer is actually to keep the engine cool as sometimes (I think dependent on the vehicle) it would stop the vehicle overheating.

This is true, but it's not the driver that puts it on, it's the fitters. The driver can't switch it off.

 

[lookapigeon]

You're lucky if you still see buses with heaters actually. As far as I can remember eg. First's Streetlites & Enviros do not have them - in addition the condensation on single glazing makes them smell of damp in winter, absolutely horrible.

It's sensible to have a window open, yes it will let some fresh cold breeze in but eventually stops the windows from steaming up and being completely saturated with condensation, which is a bit gross when it becomes water and starts dripping off the windows. To all those that sit and complain when sat in a winter coat, do you let your house windows steam up and become condensated? Or the windows in your car be steamed?

 

[J-2739]

Every so often, there is an elderly guy who gets on the bus route I frequently travel on and insists that every single window must be open, and anybody who dares to disagree with him, he either tells them to get off the bus if they don't like it, threatens to drag them off the bus himself or demands to the driver that they remove who disagrees with him from the bus, (none of the drivers ever give into his demands). Several passengers, including myself have complained about his selfish behavior.

Having said that, the Enviro 300 I traveled home on tonight on that bus route felt rather cold despite every window closed.

Lol, just close the windows. What is he going to do, wack you with his stick?

 

[175mph]

Lol, just close the windows. What is he going to do, wack you with his stick?

No, but he tried dragging me out my seat and demanded I get off the bus. I didn't attempt to fight back, but remained firmly seated. The driver wasn't best pleased with him and several of the passengers were saying how about you get off instead and he remained quiet for the rest of the journey. The driver laughed at him when he asked to put a complaint in.

 

[Geordie driver]

It's sensible to have a window open, yes it will let some fresh cold breeze in but eventually stops the windows from steaming up and being completely saturated with condensation, which is a bit gross when it becomes water and starts dripping off the windows. To all those that sit and complain when sat in a winter coat, do you let your house windows steam up and become condensated? Or the windows in your car be steamed?

I keep my house and car in such a condition I don't need to open the windows on very cold days.

 

[miklcct]

Some older models of air conditioned buses, such as Leyland Olympian, do not have thermostat so they are freezing in the winter.

Newer buses generally have their air conditioning set to a certain temperature.

 

[Lewisham2221]

As far as I can remember some of these do not have the heaters running along the saloon like the previous buses used to have, you can only feel slight breeze from around the steps near second axle area through a vent which feels more like a little space heater. I'll take a picture next time I am on board of one of these.

Streetlites (and other Wrightbus products) have heating that blows from vents in the coving panels above the windows, as opposed to the old floor mounted radiator style heaters on older buses.

Not sure if ADL products have anything other than the heater vent you mention near the rear wheel arch.

Optare buses have heating which blows from vents at the front and rear of the bus.

 

[TheSmiths82]

Surely if the heating needs to be on in the summer to keep the engines cool there is a major design issue with the cooling system?

 

[dgl]

I've been on a few First Wessex vehicles this week and the ex-Greenline Gemini's have been freezing, and that's even after 1hr of travel, the Streetlites and ex-Manchester E400's have only had slight heat, the only buses that were somewhat warm were the ex-Bristol E400 MMC's.
Going on the X53 yesterday morning to Axminster with frost all around and some patches of freezing fog is not pleasant on an unheated bus! The sun did end up melting the frosted up windows though.
I hope the driver at least had some heat as I don't know how you could drive without it.

 

[RJ]

Surely if the heating needs to be on in the summer to keep the engines cool there is a major design issue with the cooling system?

The buses are not designed like that. The engine is cooled by coolant and air. It should remain at an appropriate temperature if the thermostat is functioning correctly, the coolant is being pumped around properly unimpeded by kinked lines or airlocks, the radiator is maintained as appropriate including descaling and removal of accumulated debris and whatever fans installed are working as they should.

If there is a problem like the coolant pressurising then it might be a bodge to send it round the saloon pipes to keep it at bay but like the above that is something that needs to be dealt with by maintenance.

 

[JD2168]

I find you normally can tell a B9TL heater is working as you can usually hear it rattling away particularly upstairs. B9TL’s seem a mixed bag, some have the heating set like a furnace, others feel like it has not ran all day.

Some of the coldest buses I have been on are the Stagecoach Holbrook based Enviro 400 Hybrids which is often set to blowing cold air out & Stagecoach Barnsley Scania Enviro 300’s which seem to only have a heating blowing in around the first row of higher seats but not for very long leaving the rest of the bus freezing.

 

[johncrossley]

Some older models of air conditioned buses, such as Leyland Olympian, do not have thermostat so they are freezing in the winter.

Newer buses generally have their air conditioning set to a certain temperature.

UK buses rarely have air-conditioning. Even London buses fail miserably on this. The reasons for the lack of air-conditioning have been discussed many times, but having proper climate controlled buses like they do in neighbouring countries would solve disputes between passengers regarding opening windows.