Coastway west to coastway east?

[75A]

Are there any freight flows from Southampton along the coast? Either current or historical?

Yes, up until the pipeline was brought into use in the early 80's, there were oil tanks from Fawley to Salfords (for Gatwick) double headed by a pair of 33's via Hove (Cliftonville Curve) Brighton crews took them to/from Chichester.

Brighton crews also took bogie oil tankers down the BML from ? along the same route to Portfield Government Sidings, where we reversed in, then shunted and took the empties west where again we were relieved at either Chichester or Havant ( sorry can't remember).

 

[Harlequinuk]

Only if you get them cleared for the routes, which they currently aren't in the Sectional Appendix. If you want electric freight on the Coastway it's a 73.

Was more the conumdrum of an all eletric loco hauling something the politicians might not `like` . So how do we get the 92 cleared to go `Via Barnham` for cheap freight

 

[Sunset route]

At its peak we were running 2 X west Worthing to Seaford an hour and 1X Littlehampton to Eastbourne an hour and vice versa if I remember correctly. I know the coastway west to Eastbourne we’re 2Rxx train running codes.

Then from the operating point of view if you brought the trains into Brighton in the wrong way round you often mucked up the crew diagrams or heavily delayed the opposite service and there were many times when one of the trains would need to reverse at Preston park as platform 3 was blocked.

Then with 6 trains an hour all crossing through Brighton approaches it was was having a severe impact on the BML performance and from a personal point of view operationally I was glad to see the back of them.

I think on reflection the pairing was Littlehampton - Seaford and West Worthing - Eastbourne.

 

[izvor]

At its peak we were running 2 X west Worthing to Seaford an hour and 1X Littlehampton to Eastbourne an hour and vice versa if I remember correctly. I know the coastway west to Eastbourne we’re 2Rxx train running codes.

Time to unearth some timetables! So, in summary, from the GBTTs I have:

10/1993 nothing shown cross-BTN
5/1994 1tph EBN-WWO Sats & M-F approx 0900-1500 only
9/1994 ditto but extended across M-F peaks
5/1995 to 9/1996 1tph EBN-WWO plus 1tph SEF-LIT. Odd jnys (early/peaks) to/from Bournemouth, Hastings, Lewes &c instead
6/1997 to 9/1998 as above but most off-peak Eastbournes to/from Seaford instead
9/2000 reduced to 1tph SEF-LIT off-peak & Sats, 2tph M-F across BTN M-F peaks, various origin & destination
5/2001 to 9/2002 1tph SEF-LIT, approx 1tph across BTN M-F peaks, various O&D (correcting my summary above)
5/2003 nothing shown cross-BTN

Caveats: there is no consistency across the 2 tables (188/189) as to what is shown running through (to/from) so WTTs needed for full picture.
Some of the evening shuttles HOV-BTN are shown as running through to SEF (mostly this direction only), otherwise by 1900-2000 the through service ceases.

In summary, it appears that the through service was a trial that started slowly under NSE, expanded gradually and was retained by Connex but abandoned by SouthCentral, lasting around 9 years in all, far longer than I remember. It would be interesting to know how much new traffic it actually generated, how reliable it was (given the operating constraints at Brighton) and how much disruption it caused to BML services.

 

[Nammer]

There were definitely Portsmouth Harbour to Seaford and Newhaven Harbour services in the late 90's as I used to announce them whilst working in the Station Control point there. One was about 1553 and the other about 1653 on Monday to Fridays. Both ran via Littlehampton if I recall correctly.

 

[izvor]

There were definitely Portsmouth Harbour to Seaford and Newhaven Harbour services in the late 90's as I used to announce them whilst working in the Station Control point there. One was about 1553 and the other about 1653 on Monday to Fridays. Both ran via Littlehampton if I recall correctly.

You do! From the Sept 1997 GBTT, 1547 and 1646 Portsmouth Harbour to Seaford, all stations via Littlehampton, arrive 1813 & 1921 (the 1547 omitted Southease). That's an awful lot of stations to announce!

 

[rf_ioliver]

There were definitely Portsmouth Harbour to Seaford and Newhaven Harbour services in the late 90's as I used to announce them whilst working in the Station Control point there. One was about 1553 and the other about 1653 on Monday to Fridays. Both ran via Littlehampton if I recall correctly.

Yes. I probably heard your voice too. In 96/97 I used to catch a train every morning from Fishersgate to Moulsecoomb

 

[jfollows]

May 1994 WTT at https://history.networkrail.co.uk/uncategorized/SO_b95946d9-5ef8-414e-b9b0-0e83e588a483/ section WE page WE242 for example showing Brighton-Hastings services.
Later years at same site.

 

[Harlequinuk]

So if reversing at Brighton is an issue , and sending to Haywards Heath before reversing is doable ; why arnt 92`s running on BML?

 

[zwk500]

So if reversing at Brighton is an issue , and sending to Haywards Heath before reversing is doable ; why arnt 92`s running on BML?

Because there is no demand for them to do so? There's no freight traffic they can haul because what there is needs at least a last mile capability, and there's no passenger trains requiring loco haulage on a regular basis

 

[Cricketer8for9]

Remember, remember, BML is not the ELR (Engineer’s Line Reference) for the line from London to Brighton.

 

[zwk500]

Remember, remember, BML is not the ELR (Engineer’s Line Reference) for the line from London to Brighton.

It's not, that would be VTB (BML being the ELR for the Bournemouth Main Line from Waterloo to Weymouth, aka the South West Main Line or SWML), but in the context of the thread BML is clearly referring to the Brighton Main Line, and NR do use the acronym BML in their publications at times to refer to the Brighton Main Line.

 

[Harlequinuk]

Remember, remember, BML is not the ELR (Engineer’s Line Reference) for the line from London to Brighton.

Apologise, that was my mistake

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Aug 2025 ==

Because there is no demand for them to do so? There's no freight traffic they can haul because what there is needs at least a last mile capability, and there's no passenger trains requiring loco haulage on a regular basis

But if there was a need, they could happily run fromBrighton (or even up the Arun Valley Line) > Clapham / East Croydon (around the West London Line then onwards) .

 

[zwk500]

But if there was a need, they could happily run fromBrighton (or even up the Arun Valley Line) > Clapham / East Croydon (around the West London Line then onwards) .

Not as it stands: they do not have clearance to run on the Brighton Main Line. See this image, lines in Green are where Class 92s are cleared in the sectional Appendix.

It's not clear from the outside if that's because they have problems with the physical infrastructure, electrical infrastructure, signalling infrastructure, or simply the paperwork hasn't been done. Given Class 92s have a Special Instruction in the sectional appendix to be dead-hauled over any route with sufficient RA providing the battery is isolated, that suggests the physical infrastructure wouldn't be a particular problem.

 

[Harlequinuk]

Who would be able to find out / or i ask? Am genuinely interested in the `why` now.

 

[The exile]

I wonder what the Green Party MP would think of a Nuclear Flask going through Brighton

Presumably very similar thoughts to those about them passing through Bristol Central.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Aug 2025 ==

So *in theory* a freight train could go, along the coast, from Southampton to Dollands then via the coast, with 2 reversal (Brighton then Eastbourne)?

Don’t think bashers quite count as freight, but some on here will remember the “Wool Witch” (1993-ish) which went from London - Weymouth “the long way” (ie all the way round the coast). Imagine we had to do the Preston Park shuffle as 80m would never have been a financially viable tour length (think it was 2x4TC)

 

[izvor]

See this image, lines in Green are where Class 92s are cleared in the sectional Appendix.

No HS1?

 

[zwk500]

No HS1?

Hs1 is not shown on that map, the fawkham junction link is visible as cleared though

 

[Class73Electro]

Hs1 is not shown on that map, the fawkham junction link is visible as cleared though

Is that the random r shape near Orpington that just ends? If so, interesting the mainline it joins isn't green - is there a depot/yard there?

 

[zwk500]

Is that the random r shape near Orpington that just ends?

Yes

If so, interesting the mainline it joins isn't green - is there a depot/yard there?

Could be a layering thing, could be that HS1 got the curve cleared but Railtrack/NR didnt want to do the last section to St Mary Cray. Or its covered on a certificate rather than the Appendix.

 

[Bodiam]

So *in theory* a freight train could go, along the coast, from Southampton to Dollands then via the coast, with 2 reversal (Brighton then Eastbourne)?

The Southampton - Mountfield gypsum trains don't go via the coast - they would need to reverse at Eastbourne and Hastings as well as Brighton.

 

[Class73Electro]

Yes

Could be a layering thing, could be that HS1 got the curve cleared but Railtrack/NR didnt want to do the last section to St Mary Cray. Or its covered on a certificate rather than the Appendix.

Thanks!