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Coastway west to coastway east?

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Harlequinuk

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I hope this is the right section, and nota silly question? But is there a direct route from Coastway West (Southern region ofc), skipping Brighton and onto to Coastway East towards Hastings? Or do trains need to enter Brighton (then Eastbourne) , reverse ,to carry on?
 
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The exile

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I hope this is the right section, and nota silly question? But is there a direct route from Coastway West (Southern region ofc), skipping Brighton and onto to Coastway East towards Hastings? Or do trains need to enter Brighton (then Eastbourne) , reverse ,to carry on?
Reversal is necessary and I think there’s only about 1 or 2 platforms at Brighton where it can be done
 

izvor

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Reversal is necessary and I think there’s only about 1 or 2 platforms at Brighton where it can be done
Indeed. Could also, in theory, do the link via Wivelsfield, but still requiring a reversal (at Haywards Heath I would presume).
 

stadler

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I hope this is the right section, and nota silly question? But is there a direct route from Coastway West (Southern region ofc), skipping Brighton and onto to Coastway East towards Hastings? Or do trains need to enter Brighton (then Eastbourne) , reverse ,to carry on?
They would have to reverse at Brighton and there is only one platform. P3 is the only one with access to both the East Coastway and West Coastway routes. Also they would be limited to four coaches only. P3 can only fit four coaches for services to and from West Coastway line.

A double reversal at both Preston Park and Brighton is also possible. This would allow longer twelve coach trains and give them six different platforms at Brighton they could use.

Of course you could also reverse further up the Brighton Main Line at Haywards Heath instead. That would be another simple single reversal month.

But as far as i am aware there has never been any through East Coastway to West Coastway trains. It would be too much hassle with just one four coach length platform at Brighton to use.
 

izvor

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But as far as i am aware there has never been any through East Coastway to West Coastway trains. It would be too much hassle with just one four coach length platform at Brighton to use.
There were - and it was! About 20 years ago or so, an hourly through service was offered, but for all the stated reasons it didn't work and was quickly abandoned.

No doubt someone with more knowledge than me can provide more details and dates.

Edit: I have found it in a Connex timetable dated May 2001, an hourly stopper Littlehampton - Brighton (reverse) - Seaford, headcode 21/23, not Sundays or M-F peaks. By September 2001 (South Central) it was gone.
 
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Bishopstone

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But as far as i am aware there has never been any through East Coastway to West Coastway trains. It would be too much hassle with just one four coach length platform at Brighton to use.

There were some Seaford - west Coastway services many years ago - the Connex era or before, I think. As you say, lots of hassle and performance risk, so both sides of the Coastway are better off being isolated from the other. I doubt there is platform availability at Brighton to facilitate these moves any more, given the subsequent increase in service provision on the main line.
 

8ace

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There was an Eastbourne-Southampton train in the morning about 20+ years ago - called at Hove about 0715. Believe it was removed as it had to traverse the entire throat at BTN any failure would cause a lot of disruption.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Indeed. Could also, in theory, do the link via Wivelsfield, but still requiring a reversal (at Haywards Heath I would presume).
Could also be done, again in theory, with a reversal required at either Three Bridges or at Redhill. Changing at Brighton is easier.
 

izvor

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Could also be done, again in theory, with a reversal required at either Three Bridges or at Redhill. Changing at Brighton is easier.
Yes but that would take it well away from Coastway as iimplies use of the Arun Valley line and/or Redhill - Tonbridge - Hastings.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Yes but that would take it well away from Coastway as iimplies use of the Arun Valley line and/or Redhill - Tonbridge - Hastings.
Indeed. Gets you from Ford/Littlehampton (Coastway West) over to St. Leonards Warrior Square/Hastings (Coastway East) but otherwise the through journey that the OP was contemplating can't really be done, IMHO, without a reversal at Brighton platform 3, or an awkward reversal at both Preston Park and Brighton, or by missing out Brighton, London Road, Moulsecoomb and Falmer.
 

Tester

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I have done the Brighton/Preston Park double reversal - on an early Sunday morning Newhaven Marine to Victoria boat train, which was diverted via Littlehampton (reverse again).

A long time ago - 12-CEP unrefurbished, sleeping in a compartment.

A different world!
 

Harlequinuk

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So *in theory* a freight train could go, along the coast, from Southampton to Dollands then via the coast, with 2 reversal (Brighton then Eastbourne)?
 

Mcr Warrior

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So *in theory* a freight train could go, along the coast, from Southampton to Dollands then via the coast, with 2 reversal (Brighton then Eastbourne)?
Yes, but the limiting factor would be the length of the trackwork into and then out of platform 3 at Brighton, if that's where the first reversal was, meaning it couldn't really be a very long freight train.
 

Tester

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So *in theory* a freight train could go, along the coast, from Southampton to Dollands then via the coast, with 2 reversal (Brighton then Eastbourne)?
Three reversals (Preston Park) unless it is less than about 80m long including engine :D
 

a_c_skinner

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So *in theory* a freight train could go, along the coast, from Southampton to Dollands then via the coast, with 2 reversal (Brighton then Eastbourne)?
Has this ever been possible? Freight going through without actually going into the station?

50 years ago as a callow youth Mrs S explained to me about Brighton not being a through station I thought she was joking (or more usually wrong).
 

Harlequinuk

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Hmm so it would be easier to skip Brighton, then to Haywards Heath on the BML, then back through Wivelsfield and down through Lewes
 

plugwash

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So *in theory* a freight train could go, along the coast, from Southampton to Dollands then via the coast, with 2 reversal (Brighton then Eastbourne)?
You could run a small passenger or engineering train or a nuclear flask train that way, but a regular freight train would simply not fit between the points and the buffer stops at Brighton.
 

Harlequinuk

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You could run a small passenger or engineering train or a nuclear flask train that way, but a regular freight train would simply not fit between the points and the buffer stops at Brighton.
So the divert to Haywards Heath via Cliftonville Curve then back again through Wivelsfield i guess?
 

swt_passenger

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So *in theory* a freight train could go, along the coast, from Southampton to Dollands then via the coast, with 2 reversal (Brighton then Eastbourne)?
What theoretical freight would ever need to be taken from Southampton Docks to Dollands Moor? Unless you‘re assuming imports into Southampton could be re-exported to mainland Europe? o_O
 

JonathanH

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What theoretical freight would ever need to be taken from Southampton Docks to Dollands Moor? Unless you‘re assuming imports into Southampton could be re-exported to mainland Europe? o_O
Even if there was any, it would go via Staines and Wandsworth Road, rather than the coast, like the trains between Eastleigh and Hoo Junction.
 

zwk500

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So *in theory* a freight train could go, along the coast, from Southampton to Dollands then via the coast, with 2 reversal (Brighton then Eastbourne)?
No, it'd need a third reversal at Ashford.

Reversing at Brighton is limited to 80m, reversing at Eastbourne limited by the length of the Runround loop at Platform 1 (can't remember the standage now). Reversing at Haywards Heath is less restrictive than Eastbourne, I think, as the aggregates train runs round from Ardingly there. However as it's set up for down arrivals, you may still be restricted in length unless running round via Copyhold Jn, which would require the loco standing on the mainline for both reversals.
 

Harlequinuk

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What theoretical freight would ever need to be taken from Southampton Docks to Dollands Moor? Unless you‘re assuming imports into Southampton could be re-exported to mainland Europe? o_O

Are there any freight flows from Southampton along the coast? Either current or historical?

No, it'd need a third reversal at Ashford.

Reversing at Brighton is limited to 80m, reversing at Eastbourne limited by the length of the Runround loop at Platform 1 (can't remember the standage now). Reversing at Haywards Heath is less restrictive than Eastbourne, I think, as the aggregates train runs round from Ardingly there. However as it's set up for down arrivals, you may still be restricted in length unless running round via Copyhold Jn, which would require the loco standing on the mainline for both reversals.

Eastbourne platform 1 could have 12 coaches/ wagons on , and the run around loop is really quite long (alot of sidings in Eastbourne as well, 9 i think)
 

bramling

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There were - and it was! About 20 years ago or so, an hourly through service was offered, but for all the stated reasons it didn't work and was quickly abandoned.

No doubt someone with more knowledge than me can provide more details and dates.

Edit: I have found it in a Connex timetable dated May 2001, an hourly stopper Littlehampton - Brighton (reverse) - Seaford, headcode 21/23, not Sundays or M-F peaks. By September 2001 (South Central) it was gone.

I was going to say I’m sure I recall doing something like Lewes to Worthing on a through train, which would have been around that time.

Agree with the general view that the disruptiveness outweighs the benefit. I guess it could be just about possible to path something via Haywards Heath, but I think avoiding Brighton and also the busy intermediate stations between Brighton and Lewes would make it far more trouble than any benefit.
 

Jan Mayen

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You could run a small passenger or engineering train or a nuclear flask train that way, but a regular freight train would simply not fit between the points and the buffer stops at Brighton.
I wonder what the Green Party MP would think of a Nuclear Flask going through Brighton :D
 

zwk500

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Are there any freight flows from Southampton along the coast? Either current or historical?
Currently (or at least fairly recently) there are aggregate flows to Chichester and Botley. I think the Chichester workings do run from the east (from Redhill via either Arun Valley or Hove, not sure) but the Botley runs are mostly arriving from Eastleigh. The only freight on the East Coastway are a couple of flows between Newhaven and London (dredged aggregate and flyash from the incinerator IIRC).
Eastbourne platform 1 could have 12 coaches/ wagons on , and the run around loop is really quite long (alot of sidings in Eastbourne as well, 9 i think)
The headshunt and crossover takes off 4 cars of that (nicely illustrated on Google maps by the unit in the platform!), and the loco attaching on the end would need to fit back behind the signal, so your effective length is 8 cars, minus loco standage so c.140m. There is not the pointwork to arrive directly into the runround road, so you can't have a longer train and run the loco back using P1.

There was an occasion recently where an overlength train was mistakenly sent down the East Coastway bound for Newhaven when the branch was under possession. AIUI it was routed through Hampden Park, stopped short of Eastbourne, and then ranround on the mainline between Hampden Park and Eastbourne (the reversal at Hampden Park is signalled, as is the crossover move from the Down Main to the Up Platform there). However you would not be allowed to plan for that move to happen.
 

zwk500

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Could allways use a Class 92, for that de carbonised all electric loco on that nuclear flask via Brighton.
Only if you get them cleared for the routes, which they currently aren't in the Sectional Appendix. If you want electric freight on the Coastway it's a 73.
 
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