Co-operation between TOCs.

[The Crab]

Is co-operation forbidden? If one TOC ran all trains between A and B and another all between B and C would it be permitted to run trains from A to C with the TOCs providing alternate trains?

 

[AlterEgo]

That depends on the franchise agreements for each!

There is more cooperation than one would think between TOCs - although I don't know about things at an operational level. Certainly there is a lot of sharing of best practice that goes on.

 

[Urban Gateline]

If there was mutual agreement between both the aforementioned TOC's to do this then it would be possible. Not likely to happen though as one of the routes will probably provide more revenue than the other, therefore one TOC would lose out for sharing its route.

Also the fact that both those TOC's may then need to share train depots and redeploy/train their staff to work in locations where they hadn't worked before. Doesn't seem like such a good idea to me! Plus I'm sure that the DFT would have some sort of barrier to put in the way of such a plan!

 

[Daniel]

I'm not quite sure whether you're proposing a stock & crew or a set swap at B for passengers travelling from A to C?

Anyway, there already is some level of co-operation on the railway. As an example, London Underground and Chiltern Railways co-operate with regards to the stopping services between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Amersham. They are timetabled to provide an even service throughout the hour, as opposed to just when it suits the sole operator?

 

[mallard]

Co-operation? In the rail industry? Unless they are forced to by the government, not a chance.

 

[jha4ceb]

What about Scotrail/Northern on the Newcastle-Carlisle-Glasgow services?

 

[AlterEgo]

Co-operation? In the rail industry? Unless they are forced to by the government, not a chance.

You obviously don't work in the industry.

 

[michael769]

Arguably allowing passengers affected by disruption on another ToC is a form of co-operation. As is things like Virgin allowing Scotrail Sleeper passengers to use their lounges.

 

[Daniel]

That's true. As far as I am aware LU don't charge for accepting passengers during disruption, but they expect the same in return. Hence the non-acceptance for HeX passengers - "Well if you won't help us, we won't help you" sort of thing.

 

[mallard]

You obviously don't work in the industry.

True, I just see the madness from the outside.

 

[LexyBoy]

What about Scotrail/Northern on the Newcastle-Carlisle-Glasgow services?

Or FCC/Southeastern services between Bedford/St Albans and Kent?

 

[The Crab]

Thanks for the replies, I am interested in the theory rather than the practicalities.

 

[swt_passenger]

Central and Silverlink County services shared the 350 fleet and units changed crew at Northampton - passengers could treat it as a through train.

Southern train crew operate some FGW Gatwick services...

FGW train crew used to operate SWT's Penzance trains in Devon and Cornwall...

 

[Oliver]

Co-operation? In the rail industry? Unless they are forced to by the government, not a chance.

It's rather the reverse; the Government / ORR insists that franchises are operated separately. This is so that, in extreme circumstances, they can stop a franchise and let it to an alternative operator. If, for example, all of the First franchises were pooling management and engineering resources that would not be possible.

There is some cooperation, generally to cope with unplanned events, as described in other posts.

 

[starrymarkb]

Central and Silverlink County services shared the 350 fleet and units changed crew at Northampton - passengers could treat it as a through train.

Southern train crew operate some FGW Gatwick services...

FGW train crew used to operate SWT's Penzance trains in Devon and Cornwall...

and ATW crewed some FGW Cardiff to Portsmouths as far as Bristol.

In disruption its been known for FGW and SWT services between Bristol and Salisbury to be joined (even seen photos of an FGW 158 coupled to a 159 operating via Yeovil due to a blockage at Warminster)

Generally the industry does work together, after all their main competitor is the car...

 

[TEW]

It's rather the reverse; the Government / ORR insists that franchises are operated separately. This is so that, in extreme circumstances, they can stop a franchise and let it to an alternative operator. If, for example, all of the First franchises were pooling management and engineering resources that would not be possible.

There is some cooperation, generally to cope with unplanned events, as described in other posts.

The First Hull Trains 180s are maintained at Old Oak Common by FGW, and there was talk at one point of them having a shared fleet, although I believe that has been shelved.

 

[jopsuk]

Hull Trains and Grand Central have run joint trains out of Kings Cross on engineering weekends haven't they?

 

[fairysdad]

I think the best example of TOC cooperation I've seen was a few years back now when I was going between Plymouth and Tiverton; an FGW Plymouth - Paddington HST was cancelled (can't remember the reason why), we boarded a Wessex Trains service as far as Exeter, then onto a CrossCountry Voyager at Exeter which made an additional stop at Tiverton (which it wasn't scheduled to). The switch to the Voyager was extra too - originally we were told to remain on the Wessex unit (which was also going to make the extra stop at Tiverton) but as the XC was going to overtake the Wessex, we were shifted over to that one. So that's three companies working together which is pretty impressive.