Closed Lines That Could Re-Open.

[CyrusWuff]

Although it has been stated that its too difficult I wonder if the reinstatement of the connection from alresford to winchester really is that expensive/difficult? The alternative to the busy sw mainline would be good both for passengers and freight... Is suspect it's the connections into the city that cause the problem also I am not sure how the line negotiates the m3/a34?

Looking at an aerial view, the main problems with reopening are houses being built on the formation in a couple of places (including the site of Itchen Abbas station) and the need for a new overbridge to cross the M3. The A34 isn't an issue, as the former junction was to the North of Winchester, near Kingsworthy.

 

[first_ade]

Looking at an aerial view, the main problems with reopening are houses being built on the formation in a couple of places (including the site of Itchen Abbas station) and the need for a new overbridge to cross the M3. The A34 isn't an issue, as the former junction was to the North of Winchester, near Kingsworthy.

Thanks Cyrus.

No i realise that the formation has some obstacles, but I wondered about the strategic/regional importance.... I guess the answer is neither is important as no authority is pushing for it to happen.....

I guess I would just like winchester to get chesil back again and for trains to run over the now repaired Hockley viaduct...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Noting the "armageddon" that was wreaked upon the railway system on the East Coast railways of Scotland and the later advent of the oil and gas industry and its associated housing development of certain settlements, may I put forward the Formartine and Buchan Railway division of the Great North of Scotland Railway, that left the main line at Dyce and had bifurcated branch lines to the two settlements of Peterhead and Fraserburgh.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I believe that honour falls to the mighty Wakefield - 326,000 in their borough and the highest they've ever got is 2nd in the old Northern Premier.

And they only got that by 'stealing' a team from the former mining village of Emley (which is of course in Huddersfield)- In fact I believe the '2nd place' finish to which you refer was in fact BEFORE Emley F.C. moved to Wakefield full-time and were renamed- at the time certain high-profile games (FA cup ties/play-offs) were switched to either Huddersfield or to Wakefield Trinity RLFC, where the team eventually moved.

Wakefield and the 'Five Towns' is a hotbed of rugby league though, with Castleford also in Super League and Featherstone not far behind. So, swings and roundabouts...

 

[rick_suffolk]

However there are also many, many more lines where the trackbed is relatively intact which could easily be rebuilt but are just not worth it. For example I am sure it would be easy to rebuild the Johnston to Neyland line in Pembrokeshire without any difficulty but I doubt that anyone is ever going to suggest it! More's the pity!!!

Mid-Suffolk Light, anyone...

More seriously, I'd like to revisit the list in ATOC's "Connecting Communities" report of 2004, and add:

Sudbury - Haverhill - Cambridge;
Braintree - Stansted;
March - Spalding (largely for freight to keep it off the ECML south of Doncaster);
Aldeburgh - Leiston - Saxmundham
Leuchars - St Andrews;

In time when a certain busway doesn't work, Cambridge - St. Ives - Huntingdon!

Tobbes

Aldeburgh branch would be hopeless financially. even buses only have handfuls of passengers

 

[The Ham]

I've heard this proposed before, would be definitely good if it happened as the Waterside area is well-populated yet has no train service. For Hythe to Southampton you have the ferry and the (indirect) bus however it's a pain to get anywhere further afield.

This could presumably be done relatively easily by integrating with the existing Chandlers Ford service? They could alter that to run Salisbury-Romsey-Eastleigh-Southampton-Fawley, calling all stations. Actually when they divert the Salisbury-Southampton section of this service via Eastleigh, it always has a better path on the main line anyway from the POV of providing good connections from Swaythling and St Denys and an even-interval service from St Denys.

The Netley idea is interesting too, though I've always quite liked the idea of 2 SWT locals an hour Southampton-Portsmouth, or at least Fareham.

How easy would Brockenhurst-Ringwood be? Most of the eastern end is either a cycle path or a road, though beyond the Burley area the track bed, while present, is in a bit of a state. I don't know what the western end of the route is like. It would mean closing lengths of cycle path but they could always be altered to run alongside. And is it feasible beyond Ringwood to Ferndown and back into Poole? ISTR some of that is a cycle path.

some fairly current details:
http://www.dharrison.org.uk/waterside-railway-update/

Network rail looked at the possibility of re-opening it for passenger journey’s back in the 1990′s but nothing came of it. The Association of Train Operators (ATOC) looked at it again more recently and concluded that this was one of the most viable options for re-opening a line anywhere in the country.

Since then, Hampshire County Council has been working with the likes of Network Rail and South West Trains, via a Waterside Railway Partnership in an effort to make things happen. Consultants were employed to undertake a series of studies – called GRIP studies. Phase 1 and Phase 2 have been done. Consultants are about to report on the findings of a Phase 3 study.

So, where are we ? It now seems certain that we are looking at a service that will run half hourly or hourly, linking Hythe to Southampton Central, commencing at 6am until 11pm.

At present, the line is subject to a 30mph limit. It could be upgraded to a 45 mph limit, which would bring the journey time down from Southampton to Hythe to just under 24 minutes.

They will need to replace the line and sleepers and invest in new signalling equipment, upgrades to crossings and some relatively low cost features such as a new platform at Hounsdown (near the bridge in Main Road), some maintenance to the existing Marchwood platform, (to include parking for 15 cars) and a new platform at Hythe, near the library car-park.

There will also need to be some investment in things like disabled access, lighting, ticket machines, information boards.

It is thought that the likely capital cost of the whole scheme would likely be in the region of £15 million. Annual operating costs between £1.2 Million and £1.9 million. It would run commercially if expected demand figures are correct (a study has been done using Department of Transport guidelines), on the basis that annual revenue profits would be used to repay the capital costs over a 60 year period. The Department consider the project has high value with a 2:1 benefit / cost ration, meaning that for every £1 spent on this project, there is likely to be a £2 benefit to the communities it serves.

It seems unlikely that the new line will be an electrified one. This is a short-term problem because there is a national shortage of diesel units at the moment. Another problem is that there will be an increase in the time the train gates at Junction Road, Totton will be closed for – an area that already has a congestion / air quality problem. No consideration has yet been given to this aspect.

County Councillors, (including myself) will be looking at the GRIP 3 report prepared by consultants in the next few weeks and making a decision as to whether to progress matters. I am in favour, but worried about the impact on Junction Road.

 

[swt_passenger]

"Another problem is that there will be an increase in the time the train gates at Junction Road, Totton will be closed..."

:roll: ...definitely written by an expert in the field...

 

[TrainBoy98]

OOI, how do you work out a benefit to cost ratio?

 

[HowardGWR]

OOI, how do you work out a benefit to cost ratio?

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost–benefit_analysis

To be honest the DfT manuals on COBA, TUBA and allied subjects run into many volumes. I think this wiki page should give you the general idea. What is important is that in public expenditure, the costs and benefits are not personalised. It could be that the only people to benefit from a transport project are those who don't live in the area (this is being trotted out by rural dwellers against HS2 for instance) but COBA type approach takes no notice. If time savings are made or collisions 'reduced' (I have a reason for putting that in inverted commas) that is all well and good. If you never use the road or railway, it doesn't matter, you still have to cough up as taxpayer.

 

[Sapphire Blue]

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost–benefit_analysis

To be honest the DfT manuals on COBA, TUBA and allied subjects run into many volumes. I think this wiki page should give you the general idea. What is important is that in public expenditure, the costs and benefits are not personalised. It could be that the only people to benefit from a transport project are those who don't live in the area (this is being trotted out by rural dwellers against HS2 for instance) but COBA type approach takes no notice. If time savings are made or collisions 'reduced' (I have a reason for putting that in inverted commas) that is all well and good. If you never use the road or railway, it doesn't matter, you still have to cough up as taxpayer.

A bit like for schools when you have no kids of your own then.

 

[joeykins82]

One could argue that part of your tax contributions go towards repaying the costs of your own education and that the size of those contributions reflect how much benefit you received from that education!

 

[HowardGWR]

One could argue that part of your tax contributions go towards repaying the costs of your own education and that the size of those contributions reflect how much benefit you received from that education!

You could but COBA doesn't go into such questions, which was my point. Perhaps to keep it closer to topic, the person who travels down from London to Hythe in future will have a benefit in time saving by changing at STN onto the new service, instead of doing so by bus (I assume that will produce time savings of course!). A Hythe-ian who is a petrol head and would not go near public transport with a gun pointed at his head, will have to go on sitting in one of the traffic queues on his commute into STN, but will be paying through local and national taxes for the new facility, nevertheless. Poignantly, he may have to wait at the level crossing more often than in the past on his shopping trip in Totton. That delay should be taken into account in TUBA, I suspect, but I wonder if it will be?

It's a big subject and how to value, for instance, a trashed landscape, in financial terms, where that will happen? Noise, how to value that? :cry:

 

[swt_passenger]

STN = Stonehaven.

Never really a good idea to guess...

 

[adamt958]

Tondu to Pontycymmer with stations in Brynmennyn, Bryngarw Park, Llangeinor and Pontycymmer. when they increase capacity to the Maesteg line. Also use the branch from Tondu to Pyle with stations at Aberkenfig Town, Kenfig Hill, Margam and an additional terminating interchange platforms at Tondu and Port Talbot Parkway and the relaying of the mainline link at knuckle yard which is only about 250 yards of track anyway.

 

[Prairie_5542]

Braintree- Stansted.
Sudbury to both Cambridge and Bury St Edmunds. ( There is sufficient room to get round the Leisure Centre).
Witham to Maldon.
Lewes to Uckfield.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Braintree- Stansted.
Sudbury to both Cambridge and Bury St Edmunds. ( There is sufficient room to get round the Leisure Centre).
Witham to Maldon.
Lewes to Uckfield.

Carmarthen to Aberystwyth.

 

[steamybrian]

Can I give a vote for... Uckfield-Lewes
The trackbed has been deliberately kept clear of any development by Wealden Council in case the line was ever reopened.
The Uckfield by-pass (A22) was built it across it diagonally at trackbed level with the provisio that if the railway was reopened it will be bridged. A slight devation at Uckfield from the original route through the grounds of the waterworks.
The Lavender Line have reopened about one mile at Isfield.
There is nothing else apart from empty trackbed.
The northern approach towards Lewes will have to be reconstructed.

 

[Prairie_5542]

Can I give a vote for... Uckfield-Lewes
The trackbed has been deliberately kept clear of any development by Wealden Council in case the line was ever reopened.
The Uckfield by-pass (A22) was built it across it diagonally at trackbed level with the provisio that if the railway was reopened it will be bridged. A slight devation at Uckfield from the original route through the grounds of the waterworks.
The Lavender Line have reopened about one mile at Isfield.
There is nothing else apart from empty trackbed.
The northern approach towards Lewes will have to be reconstructed.

Yes! This is the 'missing link' I think has the most potential! Wish they would get their act together and just do it!

 

[HowardGWR]

STN = Stonehaven.

Never really a good idea to guess...

I thought I was just copying someone else. As you are so very clever, perhaps you could just inform us as to the correct nomenclature, as opposed to doing what you are doing. I noted your contribution on 'train gates'.

Great, that's going to encourage the county councillor using the expression who is clearly in favour of the development to vote for it isn't it?
:cry:

 

[joeykins82]

All of the stations have a 3-letter code, it's displayed after the name when you view it on National Rail Enquiries, BRFares and is also on Wikipedia.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/SOU.aspx

 

[swt_passenger]

I noted your contribution on 'train gates'.

I find it disappointing that a councillor who is supposed to be keeping abreast of the issues of reopening the route doesn't use the correct terminology, ie level crossing barriers.

 

[Tobbes]

Aldeburgh branch would be hopeless financially. even buses only have handfuls of passengers

Rick - as you know, Aldeburgh is overflowing with tourists for most of the summer, and the parking is hopeless - QED park and ride. Leiston and Aldeburgh could both do with improved links to Sax and to Ipswich - it would be interesting to see what the operating deficit would be post the capital costs.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Braintree- Stansted.
Sudbury to both Cambridge and Bury St Edmunds. ( There is sufficient room to get round the Leisure Centre).
Witham to Maldon.
Lewes to Uckfield.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Carmarthen to Aberystwyth.

It always looked like there was room to get around the leisure centre in Sudbury, but how do you get into Bury St Eds? Lovely idea, but I thought that much of the formation had been lost under the A14?

 

[HowardGWR]

I find it disappointing that a councillor who is supposed to be keeping abreast of the issues of reopening the route doesn't use the correct terminology, ie level crossing barriers.

Well, I don't. Is he expected to know rail stuff? I was just so impressed that he was posting to this site, very encouraging and I hope he reads this and is not put off.

 

[Prairie_5542]

Rick - as you know, Aldeburgh is overflowing with tourists for most of the summer, and the parking is hopeless - QED park and ride. Leiston and Aldeburgh could both do with improved links to Sax and to Ipswich - it would be interesting to see what the operating deficit would be post the capital costs.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It always looked like there was room to get around the leisure centre in Sudbury, but how do you get into Bury St Eds? Lovely idea, but I thought that much of the formation had been lost under the A14?

Slight deviation? google earth might show a slight path that can be used?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Slight deviation? google earth might show a slight path that can be used?

if only that leisure centre had been built further across, to allow more room for this junction station! I wish they never bulldozed Sudbury!:cry:

 

[swt_passenger]

Well, I don't. Is he expected to know rail stuff? I was just so impressed that he was posting to this site, very encouraging and I hope he reads this and is not put off.

He didn't post here. The Ham cut and pasted the quote from the councillors personal website and provided a link to it.

 

[swcovas]

[QUOTE

Carmarthen to Aberystwyth.[/QUOTE]

This would be a great rebuild but would NOT be easy. a number of bridges demolished most importantly the one immediately north of Carmarthen station and the A40 has now been built on what was the trackbed here, some building taken place IIRC in Llanybytherand Llanfarian and the final approach to Aberystwyth.

It's a plan which keeps rearing its head especially at some sort of election time but not one which I think is going to see the light of day in my lifetime......and I'm not THAT old!!

 

[Prairie_5542]

[QUOTE

Carmarthen to Aberystwyth.

This would be a great rebuild but would NOT be easy. a number of bridges demolished most importantly the one immediately north of Carmarthen station and the A40 has now been built on what was the trackbed here, some building taken place IIRC in Llanybytherand Llanfarian and the final approach to Aberystwyth.

It's a plan which keeps rearing its head especially at some sort of election time but not one which I think is going to see the light of day in my lifetime......and I'm not THAT old!![/QUOTE]

The Gwili Railway are slowly building towards Carmarthen, they intend to make a station to the North called (funnily enough) Carmarthen North. I heard a rumour that they want to re-instate the bridge over the river, then extending into Carmarthen NR station. This has gone quiet though.

What does IIRC mean?

 

[swcovas]

This would be a great rebuild but would NOT be easy. a number of bridges demolished most importantly the one immediately north of Carmarthen station and the A40 has now been built on what was the trackbed here, some building taken place IIRC in Llanybytherand Llanfarian and the final approach to Aberystwyth.

It's a plan which keeps rearing its head especially at some sort of election time but not one which I think is going to see the light of day in my lifetime......and I'm not THAT old!!

The Gwili Railway are slowly building towards Carmarthen, they intend to make a station to the North called (funnily enough) Carmarthen North. I heard a rumour that they want to re-instate the bridge over the river, then extending into Carmarthen NR station. This has gone quiet though.

What does IIRC mean?[/QUOTE]

IIRC= If I recall correctly!

I can't see how the Gwili could extend further than their planned station at Carmarthen North because the trackbed is now the A40 Carmarthen North by pass. The bridge too may have been "a bridge too far". A fairly long diagonal crossing of the River Tywi.

Unfortunately the Gwili has never had the support both financial and otherwise that its smaller, more illustrious cousins in the North have always had and the great ideas of running a service to Newcastle Emlyn which were mooted back in the 70s never took off.

 

[Prairie_5542]

The Gwili Railway are slowly building towards Carmarthen, they intend to make a station to the North called (funnily enough) Carmarthen North. I heard a rumour that they want to re-instate the bridge over the river, then extending into Carmarthen NR station. This has gone quiet though.

What does IIRC mean?

IIRC= If I recall correctly!

I can't see how the Gwili could extend further than their planned station at Carmarthen North because the trackbed is now the A40 Carmarthen North by pass. The bridge too may have been "a bridge too far". A fairly long diagonal crossing of the River Tywi.

Unfortunately the Gwili has never had the support both financial and otherwise that its smaller, more illustrious cousins in the North have always had and the great ideas of running a service to Newcastle Emlyn which were mooted back in the 70s never took off.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for that. I read somewhere that there was sufficient room for a single track? A rail under road bridge also?

 

[HWLad]

New North Main Line between South Ruislip and Old Oak Common for interchange for the future Crossrail services from the Chiltern Lines.

 

[YorkshireBear]

It would improve access to the northern Lake District which otherwise is a little difficult to get to. (e.g. Borrowdale would require the WCML then two buses). Also isn't Keswick itself big enough to merit a railway station for its own residents, as opposed to visitors?

I think it would warrant it personally. But you would struggle to get further than Penrith due to capacity on WCML. Is there capacity to get to Carlisle?

And Borrowdale is a treck.

High Green (sheffield) to Grange (borrowdale) was done by and friends going camping for a week. With full bags and luggage we went.

Bus to Chapeltown station, Train to Sheffield, Train to Manchester Piccadilly, Train to Preston, Train to Penrith, Bus to Keswick, Bus to grange. (one extra change than under normal circumstances but still...) Epic.

I know it won't happen but i still think Woodhead should be open.