Clitheroe - Hellifield to get year-round service

[SprinterMan]

I was checking out the timings for the DalesRail service this year, and was dissapointed to find out that there will be only one return service: 1M46 0836 Blackpool North to Carlisle and 1M76 1741 Carlisle to Blackpool North. Last year there was this service and an additional 1000 Preston to Carlisle and 1535 Carlisle to Preston service as well. After this service ceases in September a new diagram starts up, consisting of the following services:

1M47 0810 Blackpool North to Hellifield
1M48 1030 Hellifield to Preston (Lancs)
1M50 1318 Preston (Lancs) to Hellifield
1M51 1455 Hellifield to Blackpool North

These service runs until the timetable runs out in December, meaning that for the first time in a long time, Clitheroe to Hellifield gets a (Sundays Only) year round service. Good on Northern The trains connect nicely with S&C trains at Hellifield so journeys from Blackpool and Preston to S&C stations can be made easily.

Adam

 

[callum112233]

I wish there would be a Saturday Preston-Hellifield service to be honest. Difficult for me to get to the Settle-Carlisle line without being able to get to Hellifield.

 

[Eagle]

According to the Dales Rail website the service will be all year round (the Hellifield terminators last until May 2014 when the usual Carlisle service starts again).

Timetable

 

[IanD]

Doesn't give much time in Carlisle.

 

[yorksrob]

More good news !

Incidentally, when Todmorden - Burnley closes for tunnel works, mightn't it make sense to divert York - Blackpool services via a reversal at Hellifield ? Services could run fast to Shipley (change for Bradford).

 

[Eagle]

It would take an absolute age, probably slower than changing at Manchester, and serve almost nowhere on the route (Accrington, Burnley, Hebden Bridge, Halifax and so on).

 

[yorksrob]

It would take an absolute age, probably slower than changing at Manchester, and serve almost nowhere on the route (Burnley, Hebden Bridge, Halifax and so on).

It would serve Bradford (with a change) Blackburn and points either side (the rest can go via Manchester).

Travelled Leeds to Preston via Manchester not long ago. Wasn't particularly a speedy way to go either.

 

[Eagle]

Yes but have you actually looked at how far away to the north Hellifield is? Plus the linespeed is unbrilliant. You're looking at well over an hour added to journey times there I think.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes but have you actually looked at how far away to the north Hellifield is? Plus the linespeed is unbrilliant. You're looking at well over an hour added to journey times there I think.

Have you seen how far away to the South Manchester is ? and that's on already busy lines sandwiched between stoppers.

Not sure about the speed on the Clitheroe line but I believe it used to get IC diversions at one time.

 

[Darren R]

This has to be good news. Hopefully the services will get fairly decent passenger numbers. If the services are well patronised on a Sunday in the middle of winter, surely it adds weight to the business case for some sort of more regular, all-year-round trains - even if it only means a couple of trains to Preston on Saturdays. (Now - who's gonna be first to mention re-opening Newsholme?)

Yes but have you actually looked at how far away to the north Hellifield is? Plus the linespeed is unbrilliant. You're looking at well over an hour added to journey times there I think.

Although I know it's not going to happen for all sorts of reasons, but diverting the Blackpool North - York trains via Hellifield during the Holme Tunnel bloackade isn't such a bad idea. Using these services as timing (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y38105/2013/05/12/advanced and http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y32799/2013/05/13/advanced) such a diversion would take around 85 mins Blackburn - Leeds. This is only 20 minutes more than the normal route between the same stations. Allowing for the bus journey between Burnley and Hebden Bridge come closure, such a diversion actually looks quite attractive. (Except for passengers at Accrington, Burnley, Hebden Bridge and Halifax of course!)

 

[tbtc]

when Todmorden - Burnley closes for tunnel works, mightn't it make sense to divert York - Blackpool services via a reversal at Hellifield ?

We could count how many people board in East Lancashire and get off in Skipton - it'd settle a certain argument

 

[SprinterMan]

Not strictly on-topic, but not important enough to warrant it's own thread :P

Heysham is getting 2tpd on a Sunday over the summer to connect with ferries going to the Isle of Man. I think this normally happens in the summer, but it's good to see anyway.

Adam

 

[yorksrob]

We could count how many people board in East Lancashire and get off in Skipton - it'd settle a certain argument

Ooh, I don't think so. For starters the population won't be fully aware of the service. Then you're missing out the large urban area between Blackburn and Colne.

Sorry - you'll have to try harder than that

 

[30907]

Incidentally, when Todmorden - Burnley closes for tunnel works, mightn't it make sense to divert York - Blackpool services via a reversal at Hellifield ?

Irrespective of the journey time, where will Northern find the spare units to do this and maintain Leeds-Hebden Br and Blackburn-Burnley MR?

 

[Darren R]

Irrespective of the journey time, where will Northern find the spare units to do this and maintain Leeds-Hebden Br and Blackburn-Burnley MR?

I did say that I knew it wasn't going to happen for all sorts of reasons - this being just one of them! (Finding new paths through Leeds and the minor issue of having to change crew at Hellifled for the journey through Airedale being two more obstacles.) I was merely comparing travel times for the hypothetical diversion.

Back on topic though: having looked at the new GBPTT (now that NetworkRail have finally published it) I notice that the services to Hellifield appear as nothing more than footnotes on Table 97 (East Lancs Line.) Timings as far as Clitheroe are contained in Table 94 but are not marked as through trains to/from Hellifield. The arrival and departure times at Hellifield do not appear anywhere, including Table 36.

I assume these details will appear in Northern's own timetables, but this is a pretty poor showing by NetworkRail. If these services are not going to be advertized properly then they are not going to be used.

It has occurred to me to wonder if these services have appeared for operational reasons. Blackpool crews take the DalesRail services as far as Hellifield where Yorkshire crews take over (I believe.) Regular training runs operate on Sundays prior to DalesRail resuming, running as ecs moves between Preston and Hellifield. Wondered if this played any part in the decision to run the new services.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Doesn't give much time in Carlisle.

Its not about Carlisle, its about having a day out in the dales!

 

[IanD]

Its not about Carlisle, its about having a day out in the dales!

Not much more time for a decent walk in the Dales either.

 

[tbtc]

Wouldn't there be more demand for a Manchester service to Hellifield/ Settle/ beyond than a Blackpool/ Preston service?

 

[davetheguard]

I was checking out the timings for the DalesRail service this year, and was dissapointed to find out that there will be only one return service: 1M46 0836 Blackpool North to Carlisle and 1M76 1741 Carlisle to Blackpool North. Last year there was this service and an additional 1000 Preston to Carlisle and 1535 Carlisle to Preston service as well. After this service ceases in September a new diagram starts up, consisting of the following services:

1M47 0810 Blackpool North to Hellifield
1M48 1030 Hellifield to Preston (Lancs)
1M50 1318 Preston (Lancs) to Hellifield
1M51 1455 Hellifield to Blackpool North

These service runs until the timetable runs out in December, meaning that for the first time in a long time, Clitheroe to Hellifield gets a (Sundays Only) year round service. Good on Northern The trains connect nicely with S&C trains at Hellifield so journeys from Blackpool and Preston to S&C stations can be made easily.

Adam

As an ignorant southerner, can I ask a question about Dalesrail fares and services?

Do you have to have a special Dalesrail ticket to travel on these trains, or are ordinary National Rail tickets including Rovers etc. valid too?

 

[SprinterMan]

As an ignorant southerner, can I ask a question about Dalesrail fares and services?

Do you have to have a special Dalesrail ticket to travel on these trains, or are ordinary National Rail tickets including Rovers etc. valid too?

As far as I know, you don't need any special tickets, but best to check out the website. Don't worry about being a southerner, I am from Chelmsford

Adam

 

[bb21]

As an ignorant southerner, can I ask a question about Dalesrail fares and services?

Do you have to have a special Dalesrail ticket to travel on these trains, or are ordinary National Rail tickets including Rovers etc. valid too?

Valid National Rail single and return tickets, Ranger and Rover tickets, season tickets and staff passes are valid on Dalesrail services. It is only a brand of a service operated by Northern (just like Gatwick Express, Master Cutler, Flying Scotsman, etc).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

From Monday to Saturday, the bus service number 10 leaves from Clitheroe Interchange to Settle, via Slaidburn, at 0937/1132/1347/1627/1827, so there is connectional means for travellers arriving at Clitheroe Interchange on all those six days. This is quite a scenic bus ride through part of the unspoilt country areas of north Lancashire and offers the opportunity to pass through the iconically named hamlet of Cow Ark.

 

[55018ballymoss]

Just to tackle the point about diverting the York-Blackpool North service via Hellifield. This is not possible without two sets of points being clipped and scotched for the movement to take place as both points do not have facing point locks! (I know this as I am one of the signallers at Hellifield!)
I will be very interested in how we will be operating the Winter service of terminating services at Hellifield, and will check this when I am back at work.
Last Christmas the Ribble Valley Railway Association ran a special from Blackburn to Hellifield and back on the Saturday before Christmas, and after terminating at Hellifield, the stock ran empty via Settle Junction to form the return service, to avoid the need for clipping and scotching.

 

[Darren R]

Just to tackle the point about diverting the York-Blackpool North service via Hellifield. This is not possible without two sets of points being clipped and scotched for the movement to take place as both points do not have facing point locks! (I know this as I am one of the signallers at Hellifield!)
I will be very interested in how we will be operating the Winter service of terminating services at Hellifield, and will check this when I am back at work.
Last Christmas the Ribble Valley Railway Association ran a special from Blackburn to Hellifield and back on the Saturday before Christmas, and after terminating at Hellifield, the stock ran empty via Settle Junction to form the return service, to avoid the need for clipping and scotching.

I did say that I knew it wasn't going to happen for many reasons - although this was one I wasn't aware of!

Having just done a Google search on the topic, I can find no announcement anywhere. There is nothing that I can find in any of the local papers, nor on Northern's website. In fact the only references I can find are the links to this thread!

I am somewhat perplexed at this. Are these winter services part of or an adjunct to DalesRail - because they haven't announced it either. And if the services are some kind of 'experimental' service towards a trial re-opening wouldn't this be formally announced? There is no information or publicity about this anywhere - if it is some sort of trial run it's not going to be very succesful if it's top-secret!

 

[RichmondCommu]

Not much more time for a decent walk in the Dales either.

Really? Arriving at Ribblehead at 10.52 and departing at 19.07 gives a fell walker plenty of time to climb Whernside and have a pint and something to eat in the Station Inn. I think most people would class a day out on Whernside as a decent walk.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There is nothing that I can find in any of the local papers, nor on Northern's website. In fact the only references I can find are the links to this thread!

The new Northern Rail timetable number 12 that runs from 19th May to 7th December, shows the one train each way on Sundays between Preston and Hellifield, via Clitheroe.

 

[IanD]

Really? Arriving at Ribblehead at 10.52 and departing at 19.07 gives a fell walker plenty of time to climb Whernside and have a pint and something to eat in the Station Inn. I think most people would class a day out on Whernside as a decent walk.

The last southbound connection is off the 1259 from Carlisle which leaves Ribblehead at 1423.

Some people could probably get up Whernside and back in that time. I know I couldn't.

 

[callum112233]

From Monday to Saturday, the bus service number 10 leaves from Clitheroe Interchange to Settle, via Slaidburn, at 0937/1132/1347/1627/1827, so there is connectional means for travellers arriving at Clitheroe Interchange on all those six days. This is quite a scenic bus ride through part of the unspoilt country areas of north Lancashire and offers the opportunity to pass through the iconically named hamlet of Cow Ark.

What are the buses like on the route? Old bangers or nice modern ones? I checked the timetable and it says the journey is 1 hour 13 mins. That is a long time for someone who isn't keen on bus trips (me)

Callum.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What are the buses like on the route? Old bangers or nice modern ones? I checked the timetable and it says the journey is 1 hour 13 mins. That is a long time for someone who isn't keen on bus trips (me)

Callum.

That route passes through some most attractive country scenery that can be viewed during the journey and is an experience to savour in its own right. There has been a change of operator from Tyrer Bus who were running that service when we last used it (having the stroke last year was a check upon my travelling experiences unfortunately) and a cursory check on different sites shows either Little Red Bus or Holmswood Coaches as the current operator. The bus leaves from one of the stands at Clitheroe interchange. Perhaps someone local to the Clitheroe area on this thread may give you current vehicle provision on the route.

At least this bus service does offer a link between Clitheroe and Settle (times and days in my earlier posting) that is a better than a Sunday-only single journey each way train provision.

 

[RichmondCommu]

The last southbound connection is off the 1259 from Carlisle which leaves Ribblehead at 1423.

Some people could probably get up Whernside and back in that time. I know I couldn't.

In all fairness climbing Whernside in winter can be a hit and miss with regard to the weather but with the summer timetable (which is obviously what I quoted) there is plenty of time arriving at Ribblehead at 10.52 and not heading home until 19.07. In which case Whernside is a very realistic target, or perhaps get off at Horton and head for Penyghent. And even with the winter timetable, Penyghent is a realistic target for the physically fit.