Clifton (Greater Manchester) service levels

[JBuchananGB]

I have recently discovered that this station benefits from just 2 trains per day, namely the 0836 to Stalybridge and the 1820 to Southport. This seems to be a "parliamentary" service, and has been the calling pattern since 1992. Today the service to Southport has been cancelled. Does anyone know why the service here is so sparse?

 

[edwin_m]

It's not particularly well placed for Clifton, being on the very edge of that community and down a steep hill. I imagine buses on the roads nearer the centre provide a much more convenient service.

It's also a busy railway corridor with a mix of fast and slower services, and each extra stop at Clifton probably reduces the route capacity by one train.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

There's not that many houses that are closer to Clifton than Swinton station, and with the current service levels at Clifton, anyone looking for a train would go uphill to Swinton.
The industrial estate by Clifton could be a source of traffic, however I don't think it would be significant.

There may be 1 or 2 commuters from Clifton station using the 1 return a day, given passenger numbers.

 

[Bungle965]

The electrification of the line should have enabled the local stations on that line to receive a better service, Clifton included.
I don’t think this has yet come to fruition, if it had Clifton should have either been served with a regular service or closed.

The latter is a pretty unlikely prospect however noting the amount of legislation required for a station closure to happen.

 

[Kite159]

The electrification of the line should have enabled the local stations on that line to receive a better service, Clifton included.

Agreed there, considering those stations are mostly served by the DMUs towards Wigan with the odd 769 running on wires when they are working.

As for Clifton itself, it's in a bad location, it might generate some use from the business units close to the station (assuming the people working there live a reasonable distance to another station), but I suspect unless something major happens (ie a large explosion of new houses close by) it will be like Ardwick and countless other zombie stations and just carry on regardless as the paperwork/cost for the closure process is more expensive than calling a token service

 

[Adam Evans]

It's also a busy railway corridor with a mix of fast and slower services, and each extra stop at Clifton probably reduces the route capacity by one train.

Yeah, it's not a convenient location. The trains that call at Clifton do miss out another station further along the line. These being Moses Gate in the morning peak and then Farnworth in the evening peak.

Although these stations are then supplemented with additional calls from the Rochdale/Blackburn/Clitheroe trains which arrive a few minutes before or after the Southport/Stalybridge service which otherwise would've called there outside of the peak.

 

[td97]

Although these stations are then supplemented with additional calls from the Rochdale/Blackburn/Clitheroe trains

The southbound am stop transfer is very much a timetable bodge, as the irregular Moses Gate call on 2J23 (Clitheroe - Rochdale) regularly delays the 1Y55 service (Blackpool - Airport) immediately behind.

The electrification of the line should have enabled the local stations on that line to receive a better service, Clifton included.
I don’t think this has yet come to fruition, if it had Clifton should have either been served with a regular service or closed.

It will be interesting to see if the future timetable (to take advantage of EMUs on the Wigan services) will include a stop at Clifton due to the faster accelerating trains. Alternatively, it may just be that journey times are reduced by a few minutes for Wigan services.

If a meaningful attempt was made to serve the station, relocation to Agecroft (at A6044) might be more useful, in terms of more population in the immediate catchment area, bus links, and accessibility to the west side of Prestwich. But possibly not worth offering good investment returns given the cost of a new station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The station was of course built as an interchange, not as an origin/destination - think of it as Dyfi Junction in far less auspicious surroundings!

But that aside, I can only see it being viable to serve it more often if the industrial areas nearby were to be closed and converted to housing.

 

[Geeves]

Just to add if the regular train doesn't run the stop is always added onto a similar time train. It never goes without it's two trains a day.

 

[nw1]

I remember passing through Clifton in late 1997 and noting it looked a bit deserted and slightly run-down. In fact all of those stations, at the time (not sure about now) only had an hourly service, presumably because there are so many fast trains per hour.

And wasn't there a fifth - Pendleton - relatively recently (still open in 1980s) too, which had already gone by 1997?

 

[Bletchleyite]

And wasn't there a fifth - Pendleton - relatively recently (still open in 1980s) too, which had already gone by 1997?

That was the last station on the Atherton line which wasn't well used due to high levels of bus service and proximity to the then newish Salford Crescent which basically replaced it. It caught fire destroying the entrance and booking office (and I think stairs down to the island platform) and never reopened.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

And wasn't there a fifth - Pendleton - relatively recently (still open in 1980s) too, which had already gone by 1997?

That was the last station on the Atherton line which wasn't well used due to high levels of bus service and proximity to the then newish Salford Crescent which basically replaced it. It caught fire destroying the entrance and booking office (and I think stairs down to the island platform) and never reopened.

Pendleton Bridge was on the line towards Clifton, opened 1843, renamed to Pendleton at an unknown date, and closed 1966
Pendleton Broad Street was on the Atherton Line, opened 1889 and was renamed after the other closed, it then shut in 1994 and formally closed in 1998

There was a connection between Pendleton (Broad Street) and Clifton by going across the line connecting Brindle Heath Junction and Agecroft Junction, those services were withdrawn in 1988.

Sources:

Pendleton railway station - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Pendleton Bridge railway station - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[nw1]

That was the last station on the Atherton line which wasn't well used due to high levels of bus service and proximity to the then newish Salford Crescent which basically replaced it. It caught fire destroying the entrance and booking office (and I think stairs down to the island platform) and never reopened.

Interesting looking at the 1982 timetable on Timetable World, well before I first visited the area in 1997.

Just two trains from Manchester to Bolton running every hour: an xx55 stopper bound for Blackburn, calling at all stations including Pendleton and Clifton.
Then a non-stop at xx15 to Bolton, and then all stations to Blackpool North via Chorley.

Then in alternate hours there is a third at xx23, also non stop from Victoria to Bolton, going to Southport (limited-stop).

Also an xx15 from Victoria to Southport via Atherton every hour, giving 2tph at Pendleton.

(Was this 4-tracked? The timetable appears to show two xx15 services leaving Victoria simultaneously. I have to confess I can't remember from my 1997 visit).

As was typical at the time, there was a vast increase in service in the peak to Bolton, with trains around every 10 minutes.

Notably, Salford Station didn't seem to have a great service (just 1tph, less than Pendleton), though more trains stopped in the peak.

 

[Bletchleyite]

1997 had if I recall correctly:

1tph NorthWest Express Blackpool N-Airport
1tph NorthWest Express Barrow/Windermere-Airport (carrying an XC 158 portion 2-3 times a day) - split/join at Bolton with the Barrow/Windermere running via Westhoughton and Wigan
1tph stopping Blackpool North-Manchester Pic-somewhere I forget
1tph Southport-Chester (approximately, I seem to recall it was a slightly odd not quite hourly frequency)
1tph Clitheroe-Victoria

There was a peak extra Southport-Vic but that was via Atherton (the Kirkby forming the other Atherton per hour, and possibly one starting at Wallgate, I forget).

Today there's two more - add in the TPE Scotland-Airport. The Southport-Vic also runs all day via Bolton rather than Atherton as it did in 1997.

I forget which one did Farnworth/Kearsley/Clifton/Moses Gate - I have a feeling it was the Clitheroe. Today it appears to be the Southport-Vic.

(sorry, corrected)

 

[nw1]

1997 had if I recall correctly:

1tph NorthWest Express Blackpool N-Airport
1tph NorthWest Express Barrow/Windermere-Airport (carrying an XC 158 portion 2-3 times a day) - split/join at Bolton with the Barrow/Windermere running via Westhoughton and Wigan
1tph stopping Blackpool North-Manchester Pic-somewhere I forget
1tph Southport-Chester (approximately, I seem to recall it was a slightly odd not quite hourly frequency)
1tph Clitheroe-Victoria

Plus a few peak extras e.g. Southport-Vic.

This was pretty much correct, IIRC, though I remember the stoppers more clearly than the fast services as I used the stoppers more.

EDIT: there was also an all-stations (except Clifton) stopper between Bolton and Victoria which wasn't any of the above.

The stopping Blackpool went to and from Buxton. There was a half-hourly pattern with the Blackpool-Buxton and Southport-Chester on the opposite half-hour. These were usually 150-operated though 101s appeared on some Chester-Piccadilly peak short workings. I do seem to remember both were simple clockface hourly, though the Chester might have skipped some stops in alternate hours on the mid-Cheshire line meaning that the departures from Chester were slightly erratic.

The Clitheroe-Victoria had a mix of stock with 142s and 153s appearing quite a lot. Some continued eastwards beyond Victoria at peak times.

My 1997 visit, incidentally, was to do a walk across Winter Hill, which had fascinated me from a fairly early age (about 15 years previously) as I used to see it from the M6 on holidays to Scotland. I travelled on the Buxton-Blackpool (a 150) from Stockport northbound to Blackrod, walked across the moors and then picked up a southbound 142 (I think) from Entwistle. There was some kind of delay returning, exacerbated by the single-track section. It was December so there wasn't much light and it turned foggy during the second half of the walk, meaning that I arrived into Entwistle not knowing exactly what the surroundings were like: it was misty, damp and getting dark. I imagined it was surrounded by high moorland but never found out...

 

[Bletchleyite]

My 1997 visit, incidentally, was to do a walk across Winter Hill, which had fascinated me from a fairly early age (about 15 years previously) as I used to see it from the M6 on holidays to Scotland. I travelled on the Buxton-Blackpool (a 150) northbound to Blackrod, walked across the moors and then picked up a southbound 142 (I think) from Entwistle. There was some kind of delay returning, exacerbated by the single-track section. It was December so there wasn't much light and it turned foggy during the second half of the walk, meaning that I arrived into Entwistle not knowing exactly what the surroundings were like: it was misty, damp and getting dark. I imagined it was surrounded by high moorland but never found out...

I've never actually walked up there, but its existence does make that section of line (which would otherwise be fairly industrial and urban) quite scenic.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 May 2024 ==

The stopping Blackpool went to and from Buxton. There was a half-hourly pattern with the Blackpool-Buxton and Southport-Chester on the opposite half-hour. These were usually 150-operated though 101s appeared on some Chester-Piccadilly peak short workings. I do seem to remember both were simple clockface hourly, though the Chester might have skipped some stops in alternate hours on the mid-Cheshire line meaning that the departures from Chester were slightly erratic.

I think the times being slightly off in my memory (which would mostly have involved Burscough Bridge) were possibly because of serving New Lane, Bescar Lane and Hoscar, which as there are three of them can't easily fit into a nice two hourly pattern. I'm surprised those three haven't been Parliamentary-ised, to be honest, though they do have the potential for housing development at some point, then (like Kempston Hardwick) they'll cease to be basket cases. An ecotown around one of them (probably Bescar Lane) wouldn't be a terrible idea, and few would miss New Lane if it closed, it's within walking distance of Burscough.

 

[Bevan Price]

Pendleton Bridge was on the line towards Clifton, opened 1843, renamed to Pendleton at an unknown date, and closed 1966
Pendleton Broad Street was on the Atherton Line, opened 1889 and was renamed after the other closed, it then shut in 1994 and formally closed in 1998

There was a connection between Pendleton (Broad Street) and Clifton by going across the line connecting Brindle Heath Junction and Agecroft Junction, those services were withdrawn in 1988.

Sources:

Pendleton railway station - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Pendleton Bridge railway station - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Pendleton Broad Street effectively became redundant when Salford Crescent was opened; that new station was better located for Salford University and most of the other businesses & housing in the area.

 

[Jamesrob637]

The 18:20 to Southport has been cancelled on 6 out of the last seven days. Probably due to the usual rubbish excuse. Use the bus into Manchester, or drive to another station.

 

[nw1]

1997 had if I recall correctly:

1tph NorthWest Express Blackpool N-Airport
1tph NorthWest Express Barrow/Windermere-Airport (carrying an XC 158 portion 2-3 times a day) - split/join at Bolton with the Barrow/Windermere running via Westhoughton and Wigan
1tph stopping Blackpool North-Manchester Pic-somewhere I forget
1tph Southport-Chester (approximately, I seem to recall it was a slightly odd not quite hourly frequency)
1tph Clitheroe-Victoria

There was a peak extra Southport-Vic but that was via Atherton (the Kirkby forming the other Atherton per hour, and possibly one starting at Wallgate, I forget).

Today there's two more - add in the TPE Scotland-Airport. The Southport-Vic also runs all day via Bolton rather than Atherton as it did in 1997.

I forget which one did Farnworth/Kearsley/Clifton/Moses Gate - I have a feeling it was the Clitheroe. Today it appears to be the Southport-Vic.

(sorry, corrected)

Looking at the WTT (from Network Rail) the services were as follows. Times at Salford Crescent.

xx00 to Blackpool North, stopping (ex Buxton)
xx06 Wigan Wallgate via Atherton (skip-stop, ex Rochdale)
xx/11 to Barrow etc (non-stopping, ex Airport)
xx23 to Blackpool North, limited-stop (ex Airport)
xx26 to Clitheroe (ex Victoria)
xx30 to Southport (ex Chester)
xx36 to Kirkby via Atherton
xx49 to Bolton, calling at the intermediate stations (ex Shaw and Crompton). All other services run non-stop to Bolton.

Timing loads were DMU(S) (15x) for most services, except the Atherton line, the Bolton terminators and a small number of peak Blackburn terminators, which were DMU(A) (14x). The latter would align with my memory of using a 142 back from Entwistle; there was a 1733 service which sounds about right.

Furthermore it looked like Entwistle had no off-peak service at all.

 

[Geeves]

The 18:20 to Southport has been cancelled on 6 out of the last seven days. Probably due to the usual rubbish excuse. Use the bus into Manchester, or drive to another station.

It gets added on as an extra stop on the 1815 Blackburn. No such luck for the passengers before Victoria as you say.

 

[Bungle965]

No such luck for the passengers before Victoria as you say.

I’d like to think a taxi would be organised if a passenger presented themselves!

 

[AMD]

Not that many people avail themselves of this station; I was working this service once this week and two passengers actually got off, which is the first time i've ever seen anyone get on or off at Clifton on the evening call (apart from one lad I kicked off last year!)