Cleethorpes platform refurbishment

[swissrailpassion]

I see that platform 4 (formerly 5) at Cleethorpes is being rebuilt for passenger use.
Presumably, platform 1 will take the Azuma and 4 will allow TPE loco hauled sets to access the depot more easily?

Does anyone know more?

 

[johnnychips]

When I got the Sheffield recently-reinstated Northern service to Cleethorpes a few weeks ago, the passengers and the guard - not sure about the driver - were surprised to be routed into Platform 3, where a TPE had parked about a carriage-length short of the buffers. After a bit of faffing, we were let off the front door of the 150, most of which was hanging off the platform.

I’m glad the extra platform will stop this sort of situation happening to Northern services on future Saturdays…erm.

 

[sjpowermac]

I see that platform 4 (formerly 5) at Cleethorpes is being rebuilt for passenger use.
Presumably, platform 1 will take the Azuma and 4 will allow TPE loco hauled sets to access the depot more easily?

Does anyone know more?

I think the Class 68/Mk5a sets will continue to use Doncaster Europort rather than the depot at Cleethorpes.

 

[Aaron1]

How does the OP know about this? I can see no info in the media about it, Cleethorpes is fairly local to me so I know the station well

 

[rick pike]

How does the OP know about this? I can see no info in the media about it, Cleethorpes is fairly local to me so I know the station well

It's been talked about over local Facebook groups for more than a year. It took a week to renew the track in the platform. Focus is now on bringing the platform up to modern standards, March was muted as completion date.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Feb 2023 ==

I think the Class 68/Mk5a sets will continue to use Doncaster Europort rather than the depot at Cleethorpes.

I understand the layout at Cleethorpes depo is set up for 185s, 68s and stock won't fit.

 

[dxsmxax]

As of yesterday im pretty sure it was announced that they are bring back the CLE-KGX service on LNER AZUMAS and are testing it on the 26th.

I think the platform is to help with congestion because of the recently increased CLE-SHF service and the LNER AZUMAS.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Reading this thread, I'm intrigued. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe Cleethorpes sees an hourly service to Liverpool and a 2-hourly service to Barton-on-Humber. Even allowing for a couple of occasional extra services, that doesn't seem like the kind of frequency that would require more than a couple of platforms. How come so many platforms are apparently required for such a low service?

 

[rick pike]

Because TransPennine have a habit of cancelling services leaving 6car 185s occupying platforms. That has had the knock on effect of them having to cancel Cleethorpes bound serves as far east as Scunthorpe then bussing passengers onwards. Also the 68 and mk5 training set ties up a platform all day long, the first Lincoln service of the day as also suffered due to been blocked in by 185s since it started.

 

[GardenRail]

With Transpennine and it's ability to shaft operations at Cleethorpes, this is a welcome addition. It's become way to regular where they keep double sets in the platforms all day with no job.

To add insult to injury, the drivers won't shunt double sets either because they won't leave the train to change ends.

 

[RailWonderer]

Will the new LNER Cleethorpes service (if it goes ahead) reverse at Lincoln or go via Doncaster?

 

[Failed Unit]

Will the new LNER Cleethorpes service (if it goes ahead) reverse at Lincoln or go via Doncaster?

Via Lincoln - Extensions to existing services.

0720 Lincoln - London will start back at around 0620.

Not sure if it will be the 1606 or 1906 that will be extended the other way. The 1906 make more sense, but the 1606 could make it back to Lincoln as empty coaching stock in time to form the 2027 service to London.

 

[High Dyke]

When I got the Sheffield recently-reinstated Northern service to Cleethorpes a few weeks ago, the passengers and the guard - not sure about the driver - were surprised to be routed into Platform 3, where a TPE had parked about a carriage-length short of the buffers. After a bit of faffing, we were let off the front door of the 150, most of which was hanging off the platform.

I’m glad the extra platform will stop this sort of situation happening to Northern services on future Saturdays…erm.

Not the first time this has happened. NR signallers at York seemingly have little knowledge of how much stock is in a platform and what remaining space is available to permissive work into the occupied platform. The Memsahib has faced this dilemma on more than.one occasion. She tells me it rarely happened when there were still local based signallers.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Not the first time this has happened. NR signallers at York seemingly have little knowledge of how much stock is in a platform and what remaining space is available to permissive work into the occupied platform. The Memsahib has faced this dilemma on more than.one occasion. She tells me it rarely happened when there were still local based signallers.

Does the driver have good visibility of the platform before the point at which they have crossed the points and are irrevocably committed to that platform? And if so, shouldn't it be the driver's responsibility to stop and contact the signaller to tell them that they are being routed into a platform for which there isn't enough space for their train?

 

[GardenRail]

Not the first time this has happened. NR signallers at York seemingly have little knowledge of how much stock is in a platform and what remaining space is available to permissive work into the occupied platform. The Memsahib has faced this dilemma on more than.one occasion. She tells me it rarely happened when there were still local based signallers.

Trains have booked platforms on trust. Strictly, trust should tell all and work. If not, it's probably more to do with planning than the Signallers. Imagine the Signallers checking every train consist on trust before pulling off. Nothing would get done. Especially at busy stations.

 

[Tomnick]

Does the driver have good visibility of the platform before the point at which they have crossed the points and are irrevocably committed to that platform? And if so, shouldn't it be the driver's responsibility to stop and contact the signaller to tell them that they are being routed into a platform for which there isn't enough space for their train?

You'd need to do it before the protecting signal, usually some distance before the points. After that, the route's locked and you're committed. You're very unlikely to be able to see the entirety of what's already in the platform to make a judgement as to whether you'll fit, and even then different vehicle lengths could make a difference.

Trains have booked platforms on trust. Strictly, trust should tell all and work. If not, it's probably more to do with planning than the Signallers. Imagine the Signallers checking every train consist on trust before pulling off. Nothing would get done. Especially at busy stations.

However, booked platforms on TRUST don't account for TPE binning a substantial number of services and then routinely leaving trains dumped in platforms that they're not planned to be dumped in.

 

[GardenRail]

Not the first time this has happened. NR signallers at York seemingly have little knowledge of how much stock is in a platform and what remaining space is available to permissive work into the occupied platform. The Memsahib has faced this dilemma on more than.one occasion. She tells me it rarely happened when there were still local based signallers.

Cast your minds back to when the local boxes closed. Back then, it was rare for TPX to run 6 car units regularly. So I suppose it didn't happen as much. Fast forward to a few years ago, 6 car sets have been more the norm. Cleethorpes at the moment, does not have capacity for 6 car units, and dumped units, along with a MK5 set.

 

[dxsmxax]

Via Lincoln - Extensions to existing services.

0720 Lincoln - London will start back at around 0620.

Not sure if it will be the 1606 or 1906 that will be extended the other way. The 1906 make more sense, but the 1606 could make it back to Lincoln as empty coaching stock in time to form the 2027 service to London.

Im assuming the service will call at Grimsby Town, but will it call at Barnetby, Habrough and Market Rasen?

 

[Failed Unit]

Im assuming the service will call at Grimsby Town, but will it call at Barnetby, Habrough and Market Rasen?

Grimsby Town yes, they others LNER are looking into. Market Rasen for example will only 2x 26M coaches (as it can only take 3x 23M coaches). Not sure how the SDO works on the Azuma’s as in the days of the HST it didn‘t fit any these stations either. Would it foul the level crossing at Habrough?

 

[High Dyke]

Trains have booked platforms on trust. Strictly, trust should tell all and work. If not, it's probably more to do with planning than the Signallers. Imagine the Signallers checking every train consist on trust before pulling off. Nothing would get done. Especially at busy stations.

Funny you should mention about checking Trust. That was a suggestion recently made by management after a wrong routing incident where the signaller correctly routed a train at a junction, according to the location simplifier. However, control / TOC had failed to advise the signaller of a schedule change.

As a signaller we should be aware of how many carriages/vehicles are in a platform and the length of platform so we can make informed decisions about train movements.

 

[SteveyBee131]

Grimsby Town yes, they others LNER are looking into. Market Rasen for example will only 2x 26M coaches (as it can only take 3x 23M coaches). Not sure how the SDO works on the Azuma’s as in the days of the HST it didn‘t fit any these stations either. Would it foul the level crossing at Habrough?

It would, however 6 carriage 185 workings do already as the platforms can only accommodate 4x 23m carriages.

It's always baffled me how it's not permitted to run the front 2 carriages beyond the platform to clear the crossing whilst still having 4 carriages on the platform! (There are train length stop boards beyond the down platform from a bygone era so it must have been a thing in the past, though I think it maybe a subject for another thread).

 

[Failed Unit]

It would, however 6 carriage 185 workings do already as the platforms can only accommodate 4x 23m carriages.

It's always baffled me how it's not permitted to run the front 2 carriages beyond the platform to clear the crossing whilst still having 4 carriages on the platform! (There are train length stop boards beyond the down platform from a bygone era so it must have been a thing in the past, though I think it maybe a subject for another thread).

It is the same at Market Rasen. I expect the train would foul the foot-crossing (which could actually result in more accidents as people would run in front of the trian to ensure they don't miss it) - Now if you wait for the trian to pass you are not going to miss it, by the time the gaurd opens the doors you can normally get on the rear door. However if you get 2x 158s as an example they always block the crossing.

Back in the old days the HST went beyond the station so only the rear 2 coaches and power car were on the platform.

When this was discussed about the platform extensions on the Royston - Cambridge stations, the drivers cab must be on a platform. However that is driver only. But they only extended the Cambridge bound platforms as these fouled the crossing, the London bound ones are fine with 4 -car SDO.

 

[mm333]

Grimsby Town yes, they others LNER are looking into. Market Rasen for example will only 2x 26M coaches (as it can only take 3x 23M coaches). Not sure how the SDO works on the Azuma’s as in the days of the HST it didn‘t fit any these stations either. Would it foul the level crossing at Habrough?

I know that when the southbound Skipton-London Azuma calls at Shipley to pick-up only, they only open one door and everyone has to board that way - the Northern train despatcher shepherds everyone to where the open door will be.

But what happens with an Azuma at Horsforth when they're setting down only en route to Harrogate? Do they only open one or is there SDO door opening and announcements on board?

 

[Failed Unit]

I know that when the southbound Skipton-London Azuma calls at Shipley to pick-up only, they only open one door and everyone has to board that way - the Northern train despatcher shepherds everyone to where the open door will be.

But what happens with an Azuma at Horsforth when they're setting down only en route to Harrogate? Do they only open one or is there SDO door opening and announcements on board?

For Lincoln, The 9 car's have SDO and annoucements. Not sure what they did when they have 2x 5 car. Suspect they told people at Doncaster / Peterborough to move or they will miss the station,

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I know that when the southbound Skipton-London Azuma calls at Shipley to pick-up only, they only open one door and everyone has to board that way - the Northern train despatcher shepherds everyone to where the open door will be.

But what happens with an Azuma at Horsforth when they're setting down only en route to Harrogate? Do they only open one or is there SDO door opening and announcements on board?

As I recall, only opening one door is also what used to happen on occasions at Staveley on the Windermere branch back in TPX days when class 185's operated on the route. That was a normal stop to pick up and set down, and the guard would make clear announcements on the train that anyone who wanted to alight needed to come to the particular door she/he was going to open. Of course that was only 3 cars with a fairly open commuter-design interior and and never massively full, so a bit more practical than on an Azuma to do that. Plus in my experience there was never more than a handful of passengers wanting to board or alight at Staveley. The practice seemed to end when Northern took over the route. I assume the Northern stock must be slightly shorter and therefore able to fit the platform.

 

[paul@skegby.org.]

Apparently LNER operated a test train today 26/6/23

Realtime Trains | 5Q80 0806 Doncaster Carr Iep Depot to Cleethorpes | 26/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q80 0806 departure from Doncaster Carr Iep Depot to Cleethorpes on 26/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Test train departs Doncaster to see viability of service betwen Cleethorpes and London’s King’s Cross

London North Eastern Railway (LNER) has taken a step forward to see whether it could operate direct services between Cleethorpes in Lincolnshire and London King’s Cross in the future.

www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk

 

[Class 170101]

When this was discussed about the platform extensions on the Royston - Cambridge stations, the drivers cab must be on a platform. However that is driver only. But they only extended the Cambridge bound platforms as these fouled the crossing, the London bound ones are fine with 4 -car SDO.

Specific to GTR I think. GA can have drivers cab off the platform - Elsenham springs to mind.

 

[Failed Unit]

I guess it is wait and see time for if it stops at the smaller stations. Definitely did at Market Rasen and Barnetby yesterday, but not sure about Habrough. I guess Market Rasen has no reason the train can’t pass the platform with just the rear 2 coaches opening doors. The 9 cars have the front end (from London direction) off the platform as the driver is sat looking at Pelham bridge.

I don’t think the service will get large amounts of revenue by stopping between Grimsby and Lincoln, but surely it is for the greater good of the railway to remove an EMR service (especially when the move in the opposite direction is empty)