Class 92 Upper Headlight

[E_Reeves]

Hi all,

After looking at some photos of class 92s, I've noticed that they don't use the upper headlight but it still works and is still there. I'm curious to when this upper headlight is used? Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[TimboM]

Hi all,

After looking at some photos of class 92s, I've noticed that they don't use the upper headlight but it still works and is still there. I'm curious to when this upper headlight is used? Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks

They do use it - I think it just depends on what configuration the driver has chosen to have the headlights in (or needs to have them in).

Here's a few examples from the past few weeks - some with, some without. I think the upper headlight was typically on in the daytime when it was gloomier/raining - probably to improve visibility of the loco for trackside workers etc. (other videos of 92s on YouTube are available!):

92028 on test + upper headlight: https://youtu.be/GcyRHzhwjhA https://youtu.be/UK51XtvEVEM

92032 + upper headlight + china clays: https://youtu.be/ProQqZUa5a0

92028 on test, no upper headlight: https://youtu.be/7x5lZqR_sIs https://youtu.be/SC__ZR9-EAg [both these on very sunny days]

However, note 92033 has no upper headlight on in the early morning dusk - again I suspect it's more to do with making the loco visible to workers than illuminating the road ahead - at night the lower headlights are clearly visible without the need for the upper one...

https://youtu.be/u0Q8nInNFgE

 

[E_Reeves]

Thanks for this TimboM! I thought it may be something to do with this. I was just curious as the switch for the upper headlight is separate from the main marker and headlight selector.

Thanks again

 

[ash39]

I've just checked my pictures, I've got around 50 of various Class 92's but only on one occasion was the upper headlight on. I don't know for certain, but I suspect because it isn't required by the rulebook and is on a separate switch, it doesn't get used very often. Whereas the Class 66 top headlight I believe is linked to the main headlights.

For reference, the image I was referring to can be found here

 

[AndrewE]

I seem to remember that when [front] marker lights came into fashion it was recognised that the "continental" standard triangle of white lights at the front end was particularly good for people on the ground judging the approach of a train.

Presumably the class 92 has these for the time they were expected to spend the other side of the Channel Tunnel - including Nightstar sleepers to Paris and other destinations.

Front light are definitely not "headlights" as railway drivers know the road and rely entirely on signals in the dark. If you see something it's too late to do anything about it anyway!
A

 

[Deepgreen]

They do use it - I think it just depends on what configuration the driver has chosen to have the headlights in (or needs to have them in).

Here's a few examples from the past few weeks - some with, some without. I think the upper headlight was typically on in the daytime when it was gloomier/raining - probably to improve visibility of the loco for trackside workers etc. (other videos of 92s on YouTube are available!):

92028 on test + upper headlight: https://youtu.be/GcyRHzhwjhA https://youtu.be/UK51XtvEVEM

92032 + upper headlight + china clays: https://youtu.be/ProQqZUa5a0

92028 on test, no upper headlight: https://youtu.be/7x5lZqR_sIs https://youtu.be/SC__ZR9-EAg [both these on very sunny days]

However, note 92033 has no upper headlight on in the early morning dusk - again I suspect it's more to do with making the loco visible to workers than illuminating the road ahead - at night the lower headlights are clearly visible without the need for the upper one...

https://youtu.be/u0Q8nInNFgE

I'm surprised that something like this is left to the individual drivers to choose - are there not specific pattern requirements for lights' use?

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm surprised that something like this is left to the individual drivers to choose - are there not specific pattern requirements for lights' use?

Yes, but such rules are hardly ever retrospective.

The key phrase is there in the scope section of the group standard:

4.1.4 Action to bring existing warning horns, head lamps, marker lamps and tail lamps into compliance with the requirements of this document is not required.

https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/GMRT2131 Iss 1.pdf

 

[TimboM]

Yes, but such rules are hardly ever retrospective.

The key phrase is there in the scope section of the group standard:

With the 92s they have (and I believe always have had) the top marker lamp though - and appears to be operational (on both pre- and post- "modified" examples) based on some of the videos/photos above.

So whilst there's no requirement to retrospectively fit them, as these locos do have them, presumably they should then be used in line with the rules? And when I say the drivers choose - I was really meaning there must be some judgement (as there is with driving a car) in the margins as to whether it's dull/gloomy enough to put the top marker on, or it's OK not to use.

 

[swt_passenger]

With the 92s they have (and I believe always have had) the top marker lamp though - and appears to be operational (on both pre- and post- "modified" examples) based on some of the videos/photos above.

I'm thinking of there being no requirement to modify the switching to make it come on automatically, rather than being a 'driver option' as it seems to be. I cannot explain why it shouldn't be used normally as an operational procedure.

 

[berwicksfinest]

I am led to believe,t it depends what mode the loco is being driven in, when in "english" mode the top light isn't working. but in "channel or french mode" it is

 

[433N]

Last time I saw one screaming through Carluke on the empty sleeper stock at dusk (9ish), all guns were blazing.

(screenshot from vid)

Perhaps the auld alliance dictates 'french mode' running north of the border.

 

[TimboM]

Last time I saw one screaming through Carluke on the empty sleeper stock at dusk (9ish), all guns were blazing.

(screenshot from vid)

Perhaps the auld alliance dictates 'french mode' running north of the border.

They were running "French mode" in Cheshire as per my youtube clips above - so maybe it's north of Watford Gap they're required?

 

[matt47522]

92's have a separate switch for the Upper Headlight.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ews60002/9775785931

5th toggle switch from the left...

 

[E_Reeves]

92's have a separate switch for the Upper Headlight.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ews60002/9775785931

5th toggle switch from the left...

Yes, that is probably one of the main reasons to why I started this thread.

 

[matt47522]

Sorry E_Reeves. I misread one of your earlier posts.

I read... "I was just curious as to if the switch for the upper headlight is separate from the main marker and headlight selector."

That'll teach me to read more thoroughly....

 

[E_Reeves]

Sorry E_Reeves. I misread one of your earlier posts.

I read... "I was just curious as to if the switch for the upper headlight is separate from the main marker and headlight selector."

That'll teach me to read more thoroughly....

Oh right. To be fair, I only created this thread because I got the Class 92 on TS!

 

[edwin_m]

Perhaps they have the referendum results map off the BBC website and turn on the top headlight when passing through Remain-favouring areas?

 

[tellytype]

Isn't the upper light a leftover from the design requirement that CTRL & Channel Tunnel locos are required to have one by the rule book?

 

[CosherB]

I'm thinking of there being no requirement to modify the switching to make it come on automatically, rather than being a 'driver option' as it seems to be. I cannot explain why it shouldn't be used normally as an operational procedure.

Agreed.

 

[FOH]

I'm thinking of there being no requirement to modify the switching to make it come on automatically, rather than being a 'driver option' as it seems to be. I cannot explain why it shouldn't be used normally as an operational procedure.

The Southern Turbostars never seem to have it on despite the presence on them. So perhaps the requirement is for it to be fitted but not actually to be used?

 

[dmncf]

92's have a separate switch for the Upper Headlight.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ews60002/9775785931

5th toggle switch from the left...

Great photos. I'm guessing that the "Radio Printer" shown on the right hand side of this photo doesn't get used much these days either - I'd never heard of such a thing!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ews60002/9775980434/in/photostream/

 

[E_Reeves]

The Southern Turbostars never seem to have it on despite the presence on them. So perhaps the requirement is for it to be fitted but not actually to be used?

Same with some class 175s. Some look like that they have even been covered!

 

[TimboM]

Are they used in a similar way to (often younger) folk who drive round with their fog-lights on when it's not foggy? - e.g. to make your 92 look "well cool innit..."

 

[Mordac]

Are they used in a similar way to (often younger) folk who drive round with their fog-lights on when it's not foggy? - e.g. to make your 92 look "well cool innit..."

Only the ones who've had a spoiler fitted.