Class 87 sleeper trains

[wtd5150]

Please excuse me if I am missing an already open thread, but I wondered if anyone had any info on the late 70s/early 80s Class 87 hauled sleeper services?

In particular the type of stock formations and number of coaches.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[Bevan Price]

Please excuse me if I am missing an already open thread, but I wondered if anyone had any info on the late 70s/early 80s Class 87 hauled sleeper services?

In particular the type of stock formations and number of coaches.

Many thanks in advance.

Just as likely to be a Class 81, 85 or 86 when they still existed. Mostly BR Mark 1 sleepers (until the Mark 3s were built) with a few "seating" coaches. Cannot recall exact number of coaches - and this would vary from train to train, but up to 16 coaches was possible, even on something like the London - Inverness sleepers.

 

[wtd5150]

Thanks Bevan,caught a few 87 hauled in the early 80s but couldn't remember if mark 1s or if they had seating/restaurant/parcels as well. Appreciate the input my friend

 

[Taunton]

Unless I am mistaken, the Class 87 were the first locomotives with air brakes only, whereas the Mk 1 sleepers were vacuum braked, therefore you could not get one with the other, so the Class 87 would not have been used on sleeper trains until the Mk 3 sleepers came along in the early-mid 1980s.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I don't think sleepers at that time had restaurant or lounge cars

 

[Taunton]

The last sleeper with a restaurant car was the Euston to Inverness, which offered a complete "dinner, bed and breakfast" service until into the 1970s. If I recall correctly the evening crew stepped off at the end of service, a fresh crew boarded downroute early next morning to provide the breakfast.

The Inverness train did indeed load up to a substantial number of vehicles on occasion, there were photos of it leaving Inverness at the time in magazines with either class 47 + 26, or 3 x class 26.

 

[eastwestdivide]

There are some sleeper train formations from Crewe, 1984, in this thread on another forum:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/16907-mk3-sleeper-trains-bluegrey-livery/

 

[D6975]

In the 80/90s, some sleepers had a long stop somewhere along the route to allow passengers to get refreshments from the buffet. I remember the Plymouth-Scottish service had its long stop at New St.
Some services had a long stop at Crewe IIRC.

 

[Taunton]

There were indeed some long stops on these overnight services, but that was mainly because they were much more all-purpose trains of the type no longer seen. Sleepers, seated accommodation (invariably in side-corridor rather than open vehicles, and hopefully with sufficient that you could put the armrests up and treat the whole seat unit as an impromptu bed, two per compartment), and parcels, mail and newspapers (hence all the vans) would be in one train. There was substantial work involved in exchanging the latter at the main points like Crewe along the way. There were quite a number of regulars on these trains, especially the military - sailors especially - in uniform going on leave to/from base.

 

[wtd5150]

Thanks fellas,info is greatly appreciated.Must have been slightly later when I caught the 87 as you rightly commented on the air brakes!

 

[The Big Boo]

I don't think sleepers at that time had restaurant or lounge cars

no they didn't m8.

 

[BigBird47537]

To be honest I don't recall seeing many sleepers with 87's on. Roarers seemed to used quite a lot for some reason. Could it have been something to do with maintenance schedules (AL6/7 working throughout the day & then having their exams in the night).

 

[eastwestdivide]

You used to get a fair few pairs of 87s on night-time freight (steel, freightliners)...

Just dug out some notes from June 83, Preston from 2100-0345, electric loco workings:
87027+86005 freightliner
85012 on Mk1s relief train
86224 on Mk2s and Mk3 sleepers
87023 on Mk3s (day stock)
87016 on freightliners
86251 on postal
87006+87007 on freightliners
86327+86038 on freightliners
87032 on new cars
86039+86037 on air-brake freight
86215 on Mk2s (day stock)
86102 on tanks
85010 on air-brake freight
87027+86005 on air brake freight (see above - think they went to Warrington in between)
86315+86323 on freightliners
85011 on Mk1s including Mk1 sleepers (poss the Bristol/Scotland working)
87005+87009 on freightliners
85030 on air brake freight
86311+87019 on freightliners
86326 on Mk3 sleepers
86036 on new cars
85xxx on Mk3 sleepers
87xxx on Mk3 sleepers

for a total of one 87 on Mk3 sleepers, and 9 different 87s on freight.

 

[rfletcher72]

Linked to this thread in a way, what speed where the sleepers booked to run at the 70s and 80s?

Current day WTTs show a speed of 80mph, to be exceeded when running over 20 minutes late. After the introduction of the mk3 sleepers, was the speed altered from that of trains formed of mk1 stock? In the late 80s, ECML sleepers where shown to be booked for 90mph running.

As ever, any advice is greatly appreciated

Kindest Regards,

Richard

 

[Taunton]

I do recall an announcement, maybe around 1980, of a 70 mph limit being introduced. As most night services then had at least one B1-bogied vehicle, always restricted to 90 mph, it made not a huge difference.

Bear in mind also that the overnight services were also fitted in with the large amounts of mail, parcels and overnight freight services, in a way difficult to appreciate nowadays. The northern end of the WCML was notably busier at night rather than during the day, and this was true elsewhere - in my own home town of Taunton there wasn't a lot of freight activity at all during the day, but at night services could be block-and-block apart, and the overnight passengers all had to fit in. In fact the fastest train of the night wasn't passenger at all, it was the 1 am from Paddington to Devon and Cornwall newspaper train, all vans but which ran at Cornish Riviera speed (in steam days it always had a 'King' in charge).

 

[40012Railrover]

Max speed of WCML sleepers in the early 1980s was 70mph (because the state of the track would be pretty uncomfortable if you were trying to get some sleep in a MK 1 coach).

Also this allowed for the ability to make up time if required (as the WCML was very busy during the night - the section North of Crewe was at its busiest during the hours of darkness).

Cl 87's were rare on overnight passenger trains because their multiple working capability was best used on freight services where they would often work in pairs (also with 86/3's) on freight.

Cheers

Mike