Class 86s...for England?

[MCR247]

Constellation" AC electrics launched for spot hire. Electric Traction Ltd (ETL) is launching its first pair of overhauled Class 86 locomotives for hire. The two locomotives, now reclassified as 86/7s and numbered 86701 and 86702, have been given major exams by ETL and Europhoenix at Long Marston and recertified for 110 mph running. Both locomotives have been repainted into ETL's house colours of grey and red, and have been named "Orion" and "Cassiopeia" respectively. The pair will move to LNWR Crewe for testing and final certification next week, before being offered for trials with a number of interested operators.

http://www.wnxx.info/pix/2009/0908/070809/index.htm

 

[generalvegitable]

wow they look really good in that livery, and I'm glad that they are staying in the UK

 

[GNERman]

anyone know what companies are interested like it says there, because they are now at 110 mph it looks like a possible passenger company or open access...

 

[MCR247]

Maybe VT for the LHCS since its already in the livery!

 

[generalvegitable]

lol but they would only do it if there was a speed upgrade and as far as I know class 90s are 110mph licenced

 

[MCR247]

yeah, and these 86s now are.

have been given major exams by ETL and Europhoenix at Long Marston and recertified for 110 mph running

 

[GNERman]

yeah, and these 87s now are.

86's...

 

[Daimler]

There's no doubt, they do look extremely smart! My only concern is, it might mean that 87002/86101 will be 'retired' from occasional use on the mails.

I'd very much like to see Virgin take advantage of them - much smarter than the shabby looking DBS 90s (excepting those in FSR livery).

 

[GNERman]

dbs are going to put one in the new virgin livery...

 

[37401]

* gets up and dances

 

[Phoenix]

There's no doubt, they do look extremely smart! My only concern is, it might mean that 87002/86101 will be 'retired' from occasional use on the mails.

I'd very much like to see Virgin take advantage of them - much smarter than the shabby looking DBS 90s (excepting those in FSR livery).

The twins are going soon anyhow considering DBS has the contract now but a Pair of 110MPH electrics may just be what the charter market needs (Yes there is class 90's) at a possibly cheaper price plus by the sounds of it more reliable (althought thats just my opinion).

 

[boing_uk]

What work would have to have been done to get them up to 110mph certification?

 

[Phoenix]

What work would have to have been done to get them up to 110mph certification?

Considering at one point they were able to do this Im purely guessing a complete overhaul followed by replacement Pantographs such as the type class 90's and class 87's have.
But otherwise they have been more than capable of doing such speeds with the exception of the freight subclasses.

 

[87031]

Its good news for AC fans out there, it does make me wonder why a couple of 87s where not given complete refurbs for use but at least its some positive news. No reason why Virgin couldnt use them or even scotrail on the lowland or highland sleepers. The 90s are fairly reliable but apparantly there was a couple of failures recently so if theres more than one company interested theres a good chance scotrail could be one. You would expect Virgin to be one for use on the new Mk3 set. anyone know which 86s these where before refurb?

 

[Phoenix]

86205 and 86260 are the Original numbers mate hope that helps.
As for the benefits to us AC fans well considering there is only 22 out of the original 100 in use in this country and one overseas this small shift in the Anti electric habit is a breath of fresh air.

Hopefully if these two are proven to be a good assets and a worthwhile investment then with any luck a few more will follow with even the possibility that a fleet of over 10 86/7's could be brought back into use.

You never know maybe NXEA might see sense and dispense of the 90's over there which for some reason suffer a large amount of failures,Honestly the 87's should have gone there first.

Also apparently this is what is offered when the locomotives are brought back to life.............

* Rejuvenated Class 86 25kV AC electric locomotives.
* Wheel Arrangement: Bo-Bo (four AEI 282 BZ 4-pole motors).
* Weight: 85 tonnes.
* Power output: 3012 kW continuous; 3800 kW maximum.
* Tractive effort: 227 kN maximum.
* Sanders and wheelslip detection.
* European headlight conversion using latest LED systems.
* Single or twin Faiveley-type pantographs fitted as required.
* Heavy duty freight buffing gear fitted.
* 133mm width tyres (can be replaced with wider tyres as required) as bolt-on SAB units.
* Can be regeared without changing gearbox case if required.
* Gauges changed from PSI to Bar as required.
* Bodywork fully repaired and repainted, numbers and data to UIC standards.

 

[boing_uk]

I wonder... if the amount of money spent on these loco's was spent on a Class 90... or a Class 60 for that matter... now there would be loco's to contend with.

 

[87031]

Thanks for that Info. It would be good if these where a success the though of a mini fleet of 86/7s is a breath of fresh air like you say. Like you say its still hard to fathom why the 87s where not snapped up for Anglia im sure there reliabilty would of been superior to the 90s. It fustrates me so much to think all thats left is 87002 in this country, these where the best ACs ever built along with the 86s, you would of thought even scotrail would of used maybe 4 of them for the caledonian sleepers, i remember doin many crazy overnights on 1S26 and 1M16 with 87s up front. Good times. Still be good to see some Proper AC traction (hopefully on passenger trains) in action in the form of the 86/7s lets hope there a success.

 

[MCR247]

Remind me why would ScotRail want 87s for the sleepers again? I dont think it'd be that easy since they have 3 repainted 90s

 

[87015]

I don't think the colour of the engine makes a big difference, the vast majority of sleeper trains are still worked by EWS-liveried locos.

The 90s suffer in the Autumn with lack of adhesion a lot, I've been on one that took eight minutes from Watford Jn stop to get to the tunnel (half a mile) and had it not been for the dry rail in the tunnel I'm sure we'd never have got going. Whether an 86 (or even 87) would be much better is arguable - high power Bo-Bo locos will always struggle to get the power down if struggling for grip and can suffer from wheelslip even at high speeds. 92s on the other hand....

If the ETH index hasn't been increased then these 86s won't be able to work the sleepers anyway.

 

[ukrob]

With such a heavy overhaul, I'm surprised they haven't received a roof mounted central headlight.

 

[87031]

Remind me why would ScotRail want 87s for the sleepers again? I dont think it'd be that easy since they have 3 repainted 90s

Im not talkin about 87s im talkin about the 86/7s If Scotrail had of aquired 87s before they where taken off the WCML im sure they would of repainted them anyway. As 87015 said what colour the locos are is not important they still use EWS 90s anyway it's the quality of the traction that counts. 86/7s could work well on the long Caledonian Sleeper loads as they have always been less prone to wheel slip than 87s and 90s.

 

[Phoenix]

If the ETH index hasn't been increased then these 86s won't be able to work the sleepers anyway.

How would the ETH be increased ? and would it involve new equipment and finally would this leave less power for the locomotive to use to move?

 

[90019]

dbs are going to put one in the new virgin livery...

Source?

 

[43034 The Black Horse]

Source?

Tomato mainly, with a hint of brown.

Oh, wait..........

 

[captainbigun]

How would the ETH be increased ? and would it involve new equipment and finally would this leave less power for the locomotive to use to move?

ETH index of the 86 is 74. Bar rewinding the transformer it can't be changed unless the vehicle is fitted with an 87 transformer, which neither have.

 

[90019]

Tomato mainly, with a hint of brown.

Oh, wait..........

 

[Phoenix]

ETH index of the 86 is 74. Bar rewinding the transformer it can't be changed unless the vehicle is fitted with an 87 transformer, which neither have.

86101 seems like the only candidate but yeah so no 86/7's on the sleepers then people.

 

[87015]

86101 seems like the only candidate but yeah so no 86/7's on the sleepers then people.

Don't think log trains need eth though
[/unsubstantiated claim]

 

[Phoenix]

Don't think log trains need eth though
[/unsubstantiated claim]

I see now that's something I would go North of Crewe for.

 

[43021HST]

The best livery ever to be worn by a class 86 is BR blue