Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[Mikw]

Should of stuck with the 125s, proven British reliability.

Their engines used to shut down on hot days- until being replaced by MTU power plants

 

[nigelsporne]

How many diagrams are the 810s running on a good week day please?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2026 ==

Sorry realised this is a separate thread now.
Are they still doing training runs on a regular basis?
Which is the highest unit in service?

 

[Paul472426]

Think it's 6 now with passengers and maybe one training train

 

[DannyMich2018]

How many diagrams are the 810s running on a good week day please?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2026 ==

Sorry realised this is a separate thread now.
Are they still doing training runs on a regular basis?
Which is the highest unit in service?

Weekdays should see 6 diagrams, all single sets, multiple working is still to happen/be signed off.
022 is highest numbered unit.
I believe there should have been more in use by now but units have issues which slow things down. I believe all 222s were to go by end of the year, very unlikely now. Our friend Liam656 on here will know more details.

 

[nigelsporne]

Thank you.

 

[43096]

Their engines used to shut down on hot days- until being replaced by MTU power plants

Which was nothing to do with the engines.

 

[Mikw]

Two cancellations from Sheffield this afternoon. One says "problem with the train" other one is "problem with the doors"......

 

[Jamesrob637]

Two cancellations from Sheffield this afternoon. One says "problem with the train" other one is "problem with the doors"......

The 18:35 from Sheffield, cancelled today, is scheduled to reach STP in 2 hours and a minute. It probably makes it in dead on 2 hours some days. Are any services from Sheffield to London timed for 120 or fewer minutes in the current timetable?

 

[liamf656]

How many diagrams are the 810s running on a good week day please?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2026 ==

Sorry realised this is a separate thread now.
Are they still doing training runs on a regular basis?
Which is the highest unit in service?

6 diagrams usually, plus 1 for training. These can be found in the 810 diagrams thread.

The units currently with EMR are
810006
810008 (training unit)
810009 (training unit)
810010
810011
810012
810013
810014
810016
810018
810019
810022

 

[SteveyBee131]

The 18:35 from Sheffield, cancelled today, is scheduled to reach STP in 2 hours and a minute. It probably makes it in dead on 2 hours some days. Are any services from Sheffield to London timed for 120 or fewer minutes in the current timetable?

According to EMR's own website, that is the fastest scheduled journey time.

 

[eastwestdivide]

The 18:35 from Sheffield, cancelled today, is scheduled to reach STP in 2 hours and a minute. It probably makes it in dead on 2 hours some days. Are any services from Sheffield to London timed for 120 or fewer minutes in the current timetable?

Better northbound, with the 1102 from London scheduled for 119 mins:

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W70967/2026-07-06/detailed#allox_id=0

and 2 hrs dead for the 1802 from London.

 

[liamf656]

I've noticed that T19 has gone to Old Dalby, unsure why

 

[InvHst]

Weekdays should see 6 diagrams, all single sets, multiple working is still to happen/be signed off.
022 is highest numbered unit.
I believe there should have been more in use by now but units have issues which slow things down. I believe all 222s were to go by end of the year, very unlikely now. Our friend Liam656 on here will know more details.

Don't think they will have a choice regarding all 222s leaving they are off lease

 

[liamf656]

Weekdays should see 6 diagrams, all single sets, multiple working is still to happen/be signed off.
022 is highest numbered unit.
I believe there should have been more in use by now but units have issues which slow things down. I believe all 222s were to go by end of the year, very unlikely now. Our friend Liam656 on here will know more details.

As far as I know the 222s are still scheduled to leave en masse from late summer to the end of 2026

 

[ivanhoe]

Was on the new unit in May. Surprised that only one Unit turned up for 7.20 from Loughborough.(Usually two ) First Class was almost full before Leicester. Lot of unhappy first class passengers although I did manage to get a seat when I asked somebody to move his bag.
Good ride though and they looked good inside and comfortable. Hopefully current role out is all sorted by Christmas

 

[WesternLancer]

As far as I know the 222s are still scheduled to leave en masse from late summer to the end of 2026

sobering statement - if I was involved with transition from EMR to GBR that is on the horizon I think I'd be urgently renegotiating this to prevent the embarrassment of GBR looking like it was to blame the moment it took over...

 

[800001]

sobering statement - if I was involved with transition from EMR to GBR that is on the horizon I think I'd be urgently renegotiating this to prevent the embarrassment of GBR looking like it was to blame the moment it took over...

Could be achievable. Units up to 031 are complete

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2026 ==

I've noticed that T19 has gone to Old Dalby, unsure why

Poss to have mods done there that 020/021/022 have had some at Aycliffe?

 

[WesternLancer]

Could be achievable. Units up to 031 are complete

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2026 ==


Poss to have mods done there that 020/021/022 have had some at Aycliffe?

Thanks - it doesn't seem to me that problem is now with completing them, fortunately (tho the late completions overall isn't at all helpful) - but it seems to be the numerous faults causing them to fail when in service with EMR that will create significant problems as more 222 transfer away on that schedule.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Could be achievable. Units up to 031 are complete

19 seems to be the number of diagrams/serviceable trains to run all services, albeit with the complete deletion of 10-car working. That implies a fleet of 22-23 if reliability is good.
The full service seems to be 23-ish diagrams, and obviously the aspiration, with 33 trains would've been something like 28.

but it seems to be the numerous faults causing them to fail when in service

However, reliability is not good. My reading of the Forum vibe-o-meter (haven't seen any reliability stats) is that of the 5-6 Cl810 that leave Derby each morning, 1-2 will develop significant faults in the day, a 20-40% attrition rate.

For a barebones Cl222-free operation with 19 diagrams, Hitachi might either:

1. Increase Cl810 availability from 9 units by 14 to 23 and significantly improve reliability
Or
2. Increase Cl810 numbers from 9 units by 19 to 28 and tolerate current reliability

Based on the project so far, I can see them hitting the delivery rate for option 1, but not the reliability. The delivery rate for option 2 feels like a massive stretch.
In neither world do they hit the numbers needed to match Cl222 operation which was 23/27 to allow some 10-car formations.

However, Scotrail PR is saying "late 2027" for initial service entry and full deployment by end of 2028. This suggests something like a 16 month refurb programme at 1.5 trains per month.
So if, by the end of the year, Scotrail have a couple of Cl222 for driver training and the first couple at Alstom for refurb, then at that point their programme is still on schedule, so my best guess is that EMR might be operating a fleet of around 20 Cl810s with maybe a further 10 Cl222 clinging on.

But obviously there may be commercial agreements or further Hitachi under-delivery that may prevent all this.

 

[WesternLancer]

19 seems to be the number of diagrams/serviceable trains to run all services, albeit with the complete deletion of 10-car working. That implies a fleet of 22-23 if reliability is good.
The full service seems to be 23-ish diagrams, and obviously the aspiration, with 33 trains would've been something like 28.


However, reliability is not good. My reading of the Forum vibe-o-meter (haven't seen any reliability stats) is that of the 5-6 Cl810 that leave Derby each morning, 1-2 will develop significant faults in the day, a 20-40% attrition rate.

For a barebones Cl222-free operation with 19 diagrams, Hitachi might either:

1. Increase Cl810 availability from 9 units by 14 to 23 and significantly improve reliability
Or
2. Increase Cl810 numbers from 9 units by 19 to 28 and tolerate current reliability

Based on the project so far, I can see them hitting the delivery rate for option 1, but not the reliability. The delivery rate for option 2 feels like a massive stretch.
In neither world do they hit the numbers needed to match Cl222 operation which was 23/27 to allow some 10-car formations.

However, Scotrail PR is saying "late 2027" for initial service entry and full deployment by end of 2028. This suggests something like a 16 month refurb programme at 1.5 trains per month.
So if, by the end of the year, Scotrail have a couple of Cl222 for driver training and the first couple at Alstom for refurb, then at that point their programme is still on schedule, so my best guess is that EMR might be operating a fleet of around 20 Cl810s with maybe a further 10 Cl222 clinging on.

But obviously there may be commercial agreements or further Hitachi under-delivery that may prevent all this.

Thank for this analysis - interesting and helpful to read

 

[LowLevel]

In fairness, an alternative way of looking at it is that things might improve if a) they get a grip of the 810 reliability issues and b) they aren't spending time trying to keep a load of knackered 222s with totally different maintenance regimes in service alongside them.

The 222s finishing might not be as doom laden as it sounds as to be fair they are themselves extremely problematic - the 810s are unreliable but generally in a way that doesn't leave them stranded. The 222s are frequently stopping the job and needing rescue to boot.

 

[WesternLancer]

In fairness, an alternative way of looking at it is that things might improve if a) they get a grip of the 810 reliability issues and b) they aren't spending time trying to keep a load of knackered 222s with totally different maintenance regimes in service alongside them.

The 222s finishing might not be as doom laden as it sounds as to be fair they are themselves extremely problematic - the 810s are unreliable but generally in a way that doesn't leave them stranded. The 222s are frequently stopping the job and needing rescue to boot.

That's a good take I guess

 

[Killingworth]

The 222s finishing might not be as doom laden as it sounds as to be fair they are themselves extremely problematic - the 810s are unreliable but generally in a way that doesn't leave them stranded. The 222s are frequently stopping the job and needing rescue to boot.

ScotRail users may not find that an encouraging prospect after almost 50 year old HSTs finally retire. Marooned on a Highland Mainline single track section in winter in a 222 would be rubbing salt into old wounds!

Hopefully there's enough time to give them a really thorough overhaul.

 

[InTheEastMids]

In fairness, an alternative way of looking at it is that things might improve if a) they get a grip of the 810 reliability issues and b) they aren't spending time trying to keep a load of knackered 222s with totally different maintenance regimes in service alongside them.

The 222s finishing might not be as doom laden as it sounds as to be fair they are themselves extremely problematic - the 810s are unreliable but generally in a way that doesn't leave them stranded. The 222s are frequently stopping the job and needing rescue to boot.

Agree - Fundamentally the "steady state" that it's all designed for is a single, consistent fleet but obviously it's currently a transition which is more work. It feels like there simply aren't enough person-hours and shed space to fix all the issues that are cropping up with two fleets at either ends of the bathtub curve.
It might be pretty demoralising for people working all night with duct tape and WD40 to patch it up, knowing there's a good chance it'll come back broken the next night.
It should be very embarrassing for Hitachi, as the 222 phase out looks like another element of contract delivery they have made a mess of

You can see from this perspective how the 180 microfleet may have been more trouble than it was worth.

ScotRail users may not find that an encouraging prospect after almost 50 year old HSTs finally retire.

Lumo's Cl222 peformance might be a better guide to how they'll do with Scotrail

 

[222001]

However, Scotrail PR is saying "late 2027" for initial service entry and full deployment by end of 2028. This suggests something like a 16 month refurb programme at 1.5 trains per month.
So if, by the end of the year, Scotrail have a couple of Cl222 for driver training and the first couple at Alstom for refurb, then at that point their programme is still on schedule, so my best guess is that EMR might be operating a fleet of around 20 Cl810s with maybe a further 10 Cl222 clinging on.

It says in the SR press release that they expect to have 6 222s by 'early 2027' specifically for driver training. Not an impossible amount to achieve, seeing as they technically already have one (222104).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2026 ==

Lumo's Cl222 peformance might be a better guide to how they'll do with Scotrail

Indeed, currently running with 3/3 availability, no problems at all!

 

[rangersac]

A real shame issues persist with these. I had a run on one from STP to Sheffield post Christmas during the WCML blockade and enjoyed it, was definitely an upgrade on the 222s. The MML really seems to have copped the rough end of the pineapple out of all the mainlines in terms of problems with rolling stock and infrastructure upgrades over the past decade. You'd be a brave/ optimistic/ slightly deranged (delete as appropriate) individual to rely on it day to day for commuting purposes.

 

[1D54]

012 has a problem so 1B07 NOT-STP has been cancelled.

 

[810013]

810011 picking up the diagram from derby on 1f15 (STP DBY-SHF)

 

[Amos390]

If the little fix with 019 works, will that be rolled out across the whole fleet now (presuming 019 has gone to Dalby to get a fix as was said)

 

[810013]

If the little fix with 019 works, will that be rolled out across the whole fleet now (presuming 019 has gone to Dalby to get a fix as was said)

seems to be working on 022 so hopefully