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Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

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14 Apr 2010
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Crazy that nearly all built and yet not one has carried a passenger.

Apparently in the new year they are renumbering them to 701s.

For anyone who attended the Hitachi Open day. The following units were in the test shed and yard:-

001/005/007 were in yard
006/011/015 at Darlington end of test house (006 apparently leaving tomorrow/this week)
003/012/014/016 at other end of test house
On speaking to a very helpful member of staff I was advised it was 013 not 003. I believe 003 is still at Old Dalby. I was also told 010 & 018 were in the other shed which was not open to the public. If this is correct it would account for all complete sets ie 001, 003 to 016 and 018. I say this on the basis that 003 & 004 being at Old Dalby and 008 & 009 at Derby/MML driver training. Happy to be corrected.
 
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800001

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On speaking to a very helpful member of staff I was advised it was 013 not 003. I believe 003 is still at Old Dalby. I was also told 010 & 018 were in the other shed which was not open to the public. If this is correct it would account for all complete sets ie 001, 003 to 016 and 018. I say this on the basis that 003 & 004 being at Old Dalby and 008 & 009 at Derby/MML driver training. Happy to be corrected.
That's does make sense!
 

InTheEastMids

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Looks like the test trains from Old Dalby to St Pancras and back resumed today, after a gap of (I think) around 3-4 weeks.
 
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Looks like the test trains from Old Dalby to St Pancras and back resumed today, after a gap of (I think) around 3-4 weeks.
Is it known whether this was a single set or 03 and 04 working in multiple as on the last mainline outing on 8th September? Also whether on diesel or electric power under the wires of the southern MML? Thanks.
 

AndrewJM70

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Why would they renumber them to 701? That is the South West Trains units
I am guessing a joke based on the astronomical time between ordering and entry into service of both fleets when compared to say the construction of an entire railway between London and Bristol 200 years ago.
 

InTheEastMids

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Appears the Old Dalby based units are supposed to be doing some overnight testing, with the plan to depart Old Dalby towards Leicester around 9pm returning to Old Dalby early the following morning. Didn't run last night though.

Is it known whether this was a single set or 03 and 04 working in multiple as on the last mainline outing on 8th September? Also whether on diesel or electric power under the wires of the southern MML? Thanks.

Haven't seen any informed comment on what the runs from Old Dalby are trying to achieve - i.e. proving operational scenarios or trying to get specific trains handed over to EMR.
However, very few 810 trips appear to have been out from Old Dalby in the last couple of months, so unless there is a lot of test trips running from elsewhere, it does not inspire confidence that EMR is going to be suddenly deluged with trains it can quickly place into service.
 

Mugby

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Will every individual set need to be extensively tested before they can enter service or after the initial testing concludes, will just a short proving run suffice?
 

DaveyJones

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Will every individual set need to be extensively tested before they can enter service or after the initial testing concludes, will just a short proving run suffice?
Avanti's 805/807s we're subject to a combination of running on the East Coast (out of Hitachi's Factory) followed by some running out of Wembley on the West Coast under Freight/GBRF headcodes before they started operating under Avanti's Headcodes
 

LTJ87

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EMR will hold a media event for the new Aurora fleet in Derby on Thursday 20th November:


EMR would like to invite you to a very special preview event in Derby to celebrate the launch of its state-of-the-art Aurora fleet on Thursday 20, November.

The Aurora fleet is a landmark £400 million investment that will revolutionise rail travel across the East Midlands and South Yorkshire.

The introduction of the Aurora fleet will transform the customer experience, delivering a cleaner, greener, and more comfortable railway - the first new trains on the Midland Main Line in a generation.

What to Expect

The event will be split into two parts:

Part One (Media Only) | 10:15 – 11:30

Meet at Locomotive House (Pride Park, Derby, DE24 8PU) before walking over to Etches Park depot.

The media event will include an exclusive behind-the-scenes first look at Aurora, with details of its features, including the new catering offer.

The following people will be available for interview

  • Will Rogers, Managing Director, will outline the wider impact of the trains for customers and EMR.

  • Rachel Turner, Head of New Trains, a Derby-born engineer educated in Sheffield, has lived and breathed the project from its inception. She will be able to provide insight into the landmark project

  • A driver will be available to provide a first-hand perspective on operating the first new train in a generation, with insights into operational improvements and enhanced customer experience.

  • A customer host or train manager will share info about working on the train, the on-board service enhancements, including catering, customer information systems, and seating.
  • A Hitachi Representative - offering the manufacturer’s perspective on design, build, and innovation.
Part Two (Wider VIP Event) | 11:45 – 15:00

Other attendees arrive for the main event.

Speeches and presentations from EMR and other stakeholders, including government representatives.
 

InTheEastMids

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EMR will hold a media event for the new Aurora fleet in Derby on Thursday 20th November:

Thank you for posting.
"A Hitachi Representative - offering the manufacturer’s perspective on design, build, and innovation" I hope this person is actually accountable for the 810 delays as they are probably going to be chased round Etches Park and given a ceremonial kicking. It wouldn't be fair to subject the new graduate who's only joined the programme a week ago to a grilling.

I noticed they do not seem to be proposing to take anybody for a spin in their new super-train

Come to think of it, the picture on the webpage is CGI. Is the train even real at this point? (Yes, I have seen one with my own eyes but I'm starting to doubt myself. Was it a 222 in a new hat and fake moustache?)
 

wickham

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Will every individual set need to be extensively tested before they can enter service or after the initial testing concludes, will just a short proving run suffice?
I suspect that each unit will have to do it's "Fault Free Running", which I think is 1000 miles without any faults. If a fault occurs the clock goes back to zero and you start again !
 

swt_passenger

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I suspect that each unit will have to do it's "Fault Free Running", which I think is 1000 miles without any faults. If a fault occurs the clock goes back to zero and you start again !
The required fault free running distance is specific to individual contracts, it’s possibly unwise to generalise. I’ve seen anywhere between 500 and 5000 miles mentioned in earlier threads about a variety of stock, and it’s often been said that the first units accepted will have to do far more miles than later units in a series.
 

GoneSouth

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1000 Don’t sound like a lot, that’s a couple of runs from St Pancras to Sheffield and return.

Why has this been such a disaster considering hitachi trains are all over the place these days. From Penzance to Aberdeen we see them every day (yes, I know XC don’t run them), how can this have been so difficult? What needed to be so special about running a train to Leicester that wouldn’t have already been tested running to Leeds or Liverpool?
 

D365

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Why has this been such a disaster considering hitachi trains are all over the place these days. From Penzance to Aberdeen we see them every day (yes, I know XC don’t run them), how can this have been so difficult? What needed to be so special about running a train to Leicester that wouldn’t have already been tested running to Leeds or Liverpool?
Class 810 is not the same train as the Class 80x fleets. It’s been totally re-engineered to meet the vastly more onerous performance and packaging requirements for EMR.
 

GoneSouth

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What do you mean by packaging, and why is their route more onerous than say flying up and down the ECML at 125 mph?

Thanks for the answers.
 

800001

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What do you mean by packaging, and why is their route more onerous than say flying up and down the ECML at 125 mph?

Thanks for the answers.
The class 810 is a totally new train compared to any previous 8XX trains.

About 70-80% of it is totally new parts/equipment, each carriage is shorter, engines are different due to more modern version and emissions.

I could go on.......
 

Trainman40083

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What do you mean by packaging, and why is their route more onerous than say flying up and down the ECML at 125 mph?

Thanks for the answers.
Well, the EMR units are shorter in length and are required to operate at the same speed on diesel as on electric. The ECML is, for the most part, flat and straight, whilst the MML is curvy and has hills like Sharnbrook. Maybe stations closer together, more congestion with other trains with differing performance such as Thameslink, local passenger and freight.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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The class 810 is a totally new train compared to any previous 8XX trains.

About 70-80% of it is totally new parts/equipment, each carriage is shorter, engines are different due to more modern version and emissions.

I could go on.......
I no doubt this but BR faced the same challenges, if not worse, when it bought diesels to the main line yet locos exited the works and were in use in a matter of weeks from being delivered. Here we have the benefit of a close relative in previous iterations of the 8xx class as well as all the modern tools to design and simulate what should happen as well as Hitachi's vast experience of train building yet the trains are not yet suitable for passenger use. This poor showing yet again in bringing new rolling stock into use in the UK should result in searching questions about why.
 

PG

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I noticed they do not seem to be proposing to take anybody for a spin in their new super-train
I'm not even convinced an 810 will be there? This first look might just be large posters plus a video followed by five different people talking about them!! Doesn't exactly scream Wow if the only thing they've picked out in the PR is the "new catering offer" - though journalists do like their grub!
The media event will include an exclusive behind-the-scenes first look at Aurora, with details of its features, including the new catering offer.
 

InTheEastMids

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I'm not even convinced an 810 will be there? This first look might just be large posters plus a video followed by five different people talking about them!! Doesn't exactly scream Wow if the only thing they've picked out in the PR is the "new catering offer" - though journalists do like their grub!
What if the 810 is there, but the event turns into the railway equivalent of this Armando Iannucci sketch?


[Link is to a sketch from The Armando Iannucci Shows. A couple are viewing a house with an estate agent. The house turns out to be different from what they expected]

The class 810 is a totally new train compared to any previous 8XX trains.
I agree this is the nub of the issue. I think most of us thought EMR had ordered an enhanced 80x. I certainly did, and I think EMR also thought this.
Given how delivery of the project has gone, it also seems reasonable that Hitachi also thought that this is what they were going to deliver.
However, to meet the requirements of the contract, they have had to change so much they had to build the "totally new train", which is borne out by the time taken to get an 810 into service being similar to the time taken to go from order to in-service on the first GWR class 80x.

On a more positive note, it looks like at least one 810 was out and about from Old Dalby last night.
 

Gordonman

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There were test runs overnight on the ECML between Darlington and Doncaster.5Q60 did not go well!Anyone know what unit was involved?
 
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Sat minding my own business at Luton waiting for a 360 Northbound and this pulls in on platform 4 !
 

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