Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[johnnychips]

Surprised no photos posted yet. Here’s the exhibition at Sheffield station. Kudos to EMR for repurposing a closed pastie stall which was an eyesore, but if these are first-class seats, they are hard.

 

[Killingworth]

Surprised no photos posted yet. Here’s the exhibition at Sheffield station. Kudos to EMR for repurposing a closed pastie stall which was an eyesore, but if these are first-class seats, they are hard.

I miss the pasties!

 

[Goldfish62]

Surprised no photos posted yet. Here’s the exhibition at Sheffield station. Kudos to EMR for repurposing a closed pastie stall which was an eyesore, but if these are first-class seats, they are hard.

The shape looks good. Just as important, if not more, as how soft or hard seats are.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The shape looks good. Just as important, if not more, as how soft or hard seats are.

Seat foams also get softer as they're used. That's why new Sophias don't make the "metal bar problem" obvious, but it shows up once they've been in use for a few months.

 

[aleandrail]

Surprised no photos posted yet. Here’s the exhibition at Sheffield station. Kudos to EMR for repurposing a closed pastie stall which was an eyesore, but if these are first-class seats, they are hard.

Does anybody have any comparison photos of Hst, Mark 1 or mark 3 first class single seats. These look a bag of ****e

 

[irish_rail]

Seat foams also get softer as they're used. That's why new Sophias don't make the "metal bar problem" obvious, but it shows up once they've been in use for a few months.

The metal bar on standard class 80x seats is really starting to show, the seats have got much much more uncomfortable due to said metal bar in past few months. I hope someone is looking at doing something about the IET seating on GWR and not just medium distance EMR units.

 

[QSK19]

I sampled the seats at Derby station today.

Overall, I think they’re comfortable; and the extended headrest curve was very good for having a rest - when I simulated my seat sleeping position, my head didn’t come off it. I also liked the bench design - lift the middle arm up and you have a decent amount of space if you’re travelling with your partner or kids.

I do have three concerns, though. Firstly, one which I (and others) have stated before, is that there is one plug and one USB slot between two people. I fear the seat design is a fait accompli - doesn’t matter what the feedback is, it’s effectively “that’s what you’re getting, tough if you don’t like it”. Just seems a little corner-cutting to me and takes the gloss off what I think is a good product.

Secondly, the airline style tables, whilst a decent size and of solid construction, don’t half clatter against the seat in front when they are retracted - I can see people asleep being woken up by the table banging into the back of their seat.

And thirdly, I think the armrests are going to get worn out quickly, what with people rubbing against them, kids jumping over them when getting into the seat and the general wear and tear from moving the arms up and down. I think a high quality plastic material would have been better.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Surprised no photos posted yet. Here’s the exhibition at Sheffield station. Kudos to EMR for repurposing a closed pastie stall which was an eyesore, but if these are first-class seats, they are hard.

They don't even look as comfortable as the standard class Meridian seats in my view.
And the 745 seats in first class are disgraceful, and I would assume these are mildly tarted up versions of those.

 

[bluelagoon8951]

Surprised no photos posted yet. Here’s the exhibition at Sheffield station. Kudos to EMR for repurposing a closed pastie stall which was an eyesore, but if these are first-class seats, they are hard.

i tried them on friday evening (very briefly) and can confirm - nice shape, but they are hard. 1" of padding maximum. i can imagine they will be uncomfortable to sit on after no more than half an hour.

 

[HarryF]

I tried one out Friday, and I know this is controversial, but I’d rather sit in a GWR IET first class seat than one of the new EMR ones.

 

[WizCastro197]

I tried one out Friday, and I know this is controversial, but I’d rather sit in a GWR IET first class seat than one of the new EMR ones.

Did you try a First or Standard seat?

I hope they go to Leicester around the December Mark.


How long are they in Nottingham, Sheffield and Derby for?

 

[D365]

I’ve just tried out the standard seat in Derby. Certainly does the job for a 3 min sitdown

 

[WesternLancer]

Anyone know if any sets are at Old Dalby test track yet? A friend of mine thought he saw one when driving on the A46 but it was after dark and he would not claim to be an expert, so I thought I'd ask if there was any more knowledge out there.

 

[BJames]

i tried them on friday evening (very briefly) and can confirm - nice shape, but they are hard. 1" of padding maximum. i can imagine they will be uncomfortable to sit on after no more than half an hour.

I tried today, had been meaning to get round for a while but timings just meant I was passing by this way today. I think they are reasonably comfortable, but it is definitely the shape that aids comfort and not the padding - they are quite firm, firmer than I was hoping to be honest.

For anyone who has sat in a FISA LEAN before (e.g. on a 745, 755 or 196), are they actually different, or just a different colour/fabric?

Although there are similarities they are definitely different. IMO 745s seats are more comfortable.

 

[LowLevel]

Anyone know if any sets are at Old Dalby test track yet? A friend of mine thought he saw one when driving on the A46 but it was after dark and he would not claim to be an expert, so I thought I'd ask if there was any more knowledge out there.

I believe that's an Avanti 805.

 

[800001]

Anyone know if any sets are at Old Dalby test track yet? A friend of mine thought he saw one when driving on the A46 but it was after dark and he would not claim to be an expert, so I thought I'd ask if there was any more knowledge out there.

There are no 810s there.

There are 2 x 805s for Avanti current there.

At Newton Aycliffe there are 2 x 810 both under going static testing as a complete train within the test area of factory.
No complete 810 has been seen outside at Newton Aycliffe (to the best of my knowledge), and certainly have not made it outside yet onto the test track there.

 

[WesternLancer]

I believe that's an Avanti 805.

Thanks for the info!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Dec 2022 ==

There are no 810s there.

There are 2 x 805s for Avanti current there.

At Newton Aycliffe there are 2 x 810 both under going static testing as a complete train within the test area of factory.
No complete 810 has been seen outside at Newton Aycliffe (to the best of my knowledge), and certainly have not made it outside yet onto the test track there.

Many thanks - appreciate the gen.

 

[AndrewJM70]

Does anyone have any idea when we will see the first sets in traffic? I can’t find any information anywhere on this which is surprising given that hey are supposed to be in service this year.

 

[Townsend Hook]

deleted

 

[D365]

Given that Etches Park is in the middle of a rebuild, I can't imagine that there is a huge rush to get the 810s in.

 

[Snow1964]

Does anyone have any idea when we will see the first sets in traffic? I can’t find any information anywhere on this which is surprising given that hey are supposed to be in service this year.

There have been webpages in the past that said during 2023, and East Midlands trains even said whole fleet by Spring 2024 on its rolling stock pages.

However the dates have been quietly removed sometime in last few months. No updated dates have replaced them, so things must have changed. I would guess few months later than originally planned so in service starting from early 2024, whole fleet year later, but hopefully others can be more accurate.

 

[Peter Sarf]

There have been webpages in the past that said during 2023, and East Midlands trains even said whole fleet by Spring 2024 on its rolling stock pages.

However the dates have been quietly removed sometime in last few months. No updated dates have replaced them, so things must have changed. I would guess few months later than originally planned so in service starting from early 2024, whole fleet year later, but hopefully others can be more accurate.

I suppose that means not much of a delay really, especially compared to roll out of other fleets.

The most worrying some might think of is if demand post Covid has changed enough to mean EMR (under DfTs guidance / control) are re-visiting the requirement. But it is doubtful as they are an integral part of the electrification of the Midland Main Line (see here) that is progressing quite well.

I the 810s are close behind the 805s & 807s in the delivery/implimentation queue and so will be imminent. Have a look at progress with the Avanti 805s & 807 here.

 

[Energy]

I suppose that means not much of a delay really, especially compared to roll out of other fleets.

The most worrying some might think of is if demand post Covid has changed enough to mean EMR (under DfTs guidance / control) are re-visiting the requirement. But it is doubtful as they are an integral part of the electrification of the Midland Main Line (see here) that is progressing quite well.

I the 810s are close behind the 805s & 807s in the delivery/implimentation queue and so will be imminent. Have a look at progress with the Avanti 805s & 807 here.

The 810s will be on a fairly long contract. The 180s have their lease expiring soon so its easy to cut the plans for any extension.

The DfT aren't against new trains, if they could cancel it would only be if its cheaper to carry on leasing the existing fleet and run diesel under wires. Running diesel trains into St Pancras and not using the brand new wires would be interesting politically...

As for pushing back the dates on their website, they are just taking longer than expected. WMR's website had the dates changed for the 196s, it doesn't mean much and its not uncommon for the date to be in the past.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The 810s will be on a fairly long contract. The 180s have their lease expiring soon so its easy to cut the plans for any extension.

The DfT aren't against new trains, if they could cancel it would only be if its cheaper to carry on leasing the existing fleet and run diesel under wires. Running diesel trains into St Pancras and not using the brand new wires would be interesting politically...

As for pushing back the dates on their website, they are just taking longer than expected. WMR's website had the dates changed for the 196s, it doesn't mean much and its not uncommon for the date to be in the past.

I agree. Though I had not thought about the 180s, if there is any need to cut back then the 180s are an obvious choice - not only short lease but a "micro fleet".

 

[QSK19]

I suppose that one good thing about the 810 introduction being pushed back is all the wiring south of Bedford may be upgraded by then - ie the 810s will be able to run pan up all the way from STP to Wigston junction.

Until the wires are upgraded, the 810s would leave STP pan up, drop it at around Cricklewood when line speed increases above 100mph, pan up again at Bedford and then pan down at Wigston junction. That pan would be jumping up and down more often than a kangaroo!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2023 ==

The most worrying some might think of is if demand post Covid has changed enough to mean EMR (under DfTs guidance / control) are re-visiting the requirement. But it is doubtful as they are an integral part of the electrification of the Midland Main Line (see here) that is progressing quite well.

And also, even if the DfT wanted to revisit the requirement, the order is too far along to modify or cancel. Just imagine if the DfT suddenly said that EMR are keeping the 222s - political suicide and interesting reactions from Hitachi, Rock Rail, passenger groups, etc!!

 

[Peter Sarf]

I suppose that one good thing about the 810 introduction being pushed back is all the wiring south of Bedford may be upgraded by then - ie the 810s will be able to run pan up all the way from STP to Wigston junction.

Until the wires are upgraded, the 810s would leave STP pan up, drop it at around Cricklewood when line speed increases above 100mph, pan up again at Bedford and then pan down at Wigston junction. That pan would be jumping up and down more often than a kangaroo!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jan 2023 ==


And also, even if the DfT wanted to revisit the requirement, the order is too far along to modify or cancel. Just imagine if the DfT suddenly said that EMR are keeping the 222s - political suicide and interesting reactions from Hitachi, Rock Rail, passenger groups, etc!!

Yes there is more scope for wondering where the 222s are going next. And there must be a thread for that - but I cannot find it !.

The 180s will be sacrificed first.

 

[WesternLancer]

The 810s will be on a fairly long contract. The 180s have their lease expiring soon so its easy to cut the plans for any extension.

Strikes me that is the 180s leases expire soon, and GW are scaling back on the Castle Class fleet HSTs, there is a real opportunity to replace the 180s with some Castle Class HSTs to use on the MML

 

[Skymonster]

Despite earlier suggestions that the 180s would stay around at EMR for a while, my latest “intel” is that they will finish at the May timetable change. Unfortunately this means that some Intercity services will be running with 5-car Medians rather than 7- or 10-car formations, potentially leading to more overcrowding. However, 180 reliability has been rather poor recently, and I guess that in most cases overcrowded is better than cancelled.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Despite earlier suggestions that the 180s would stay around at EMR for a while, my latest “intel” is that they will finish at the May timetable change. Unfortunately this means that some Intercity services will be running with 5-car Medians rather than 7- or 10-car formations, potentially leading to more overcrowding. However, 180 reliability has been rather poor recently, and I guess that in most cases overcrowded is better than cancelled.

Was it ever good

Yes, to be fair overcrowded is better than cancelled, and they can to some extent push people onto other trains by way of releasing no Advances on the short ones.

 

[WesternLancer]

Despite earlier suggestions that the 180s would stay around at EMR for a while, my latest “intel” is that they will finish at the May timetable change. Unfortunately this means that some Intercity services will be running with 5-car Medians rather than 7- or 10-car formations, potentially leading to more overcrowding. However, 180 reliability has been rather poor recently, and I guess that in most cases overcrowded is better than cancelled.

Cumulatively results in a significant reduction in MML seating from the days of HSTs + Meridians (then shorts HSTs) then Meridians + 180s to then just Meridians post May 2023 then....