Class 80x trains

[hypercolius]

In late April, I took a trip on a Class 180 Adelante from Peterborough to London in first class after actively seeking out an opportunity to travel on this train. Despite what I was told, the train was comfortable, the ride quality 4/5 smooth and the seats extremely comfortable. The train has a name- Hart of the North. I know many people say that the ride quality of this train is poor, but I experienced the opposite on that trip (and the train was going at full speed). Maybe me being used to Class 171s, which shake so violently I was nearly thrown off my feet a few times, has skewed my perception a bit.


The next time on the ECML I travelled in an Azuma, also in first class. The train rattled way worse than the Adelante (it in fact rattled more than the GWR IET, which I travelled a lot on in the past), the seat comfort was worse and the onboard experience in general was worse save for the food. I do tend to enjoy it when trains rattle a bit at high speed (which made a ride on an S112 train in Spain feel highly unfamiliar) but this was definitely not enjoyable. I fact, the seat comfort I found indistinguishable from a standard class IET seat, which depending on how much I cycle may or may not give me leg cramps.

I was extremely shocked to find out that Class 805/7 trains are limited to 177 km/h. Why are they even replacing Voyagers in that case? (which I often actively seek out because travelling with a bike on a Pendolino is not a pleasant experience). Voyagers in general I prefer over the 80x series (except for when the train passes another train and the entire window bends inwards)
I seem to recall reading that 'advances in train technology mean that tilting is not needed to reach 200 km/h' for the 805/7. Is that is so, why are they being restricted?

If this is all due to passenger comfort I am not looking forward to travelling on these trains (there is a big curve on the southern ECML which the Adelante and Azuma took at speed, which was not a pleasant experience. By contrast, I did not feel that curve at all on a GC Voyager)

 

[skyhigh]

I was extremely shocked to find out that Class 805/7 trains are limited to 177 km/h.

I don't think that's true.

 

[hexagon789]

I was extremely shocked to find out that Class 805/7 trains are limited to 177 km/h. Why are they even replacing Voyagers in that case? (which I often actively seek out because travelling with a bike on a Pendolino is not a pleasant experience). Voyagers in general I prefer over the 80x series (except for when the train passes another train and the entire window bends inwards)
I seem to recall reading that 'advances in train technology mean that tilting is not needed to reach 200 km/h' for the 805/7. Is that is so, why are they being restricted?

They aren't limited to 110mph, they are running at the currently permitted speed limits for non-tilting trains.

A programme to introduce a new MU speed profile has been completed but hasn't been signed off yet.

The profile allows trains passed to use MU speeds to run at up to 125mph in some places on the southern WCML, but predominantly 115-120.

Also tilt isn't required to run at the EPS speeds, not safely anyway, it's simply for enhanced comfort due to the forces induced on passengers when taking curves at speed.

 

[Energy]

I don't think that's true.

110mph ≈ 177kph.

They can temporarily only run at this speed on the WCML until the new MU speed profile comes in. They accelerate better than the voyagers so are coping OK with only PS profile speeds for now.

In late April, I took a trip on a Class 180 Adelante from Peterborough to London in first class after actively seeking out an opportunity to travel on this train. Despite what I was told, the train was comfortable, the ride quality 4/5 smooth and the seats extremely comfortable.

The 175s & 180s are generally regarded as good interiors but terribly mechanically.

The next time on the ECML I travelled in an Azuma, also in first class. The train rattled way worse than the Adelante (it in fact rattled more than the GWR IET, which I travelled a lot on in the past), the seat comfort was worse and the onboard experience in general was worse save for the food.

The IETs and Azumas are known to ride terribly, IIRC Hitachi only did the calculations on ride when the components are new and not worn, and they overestimated the condition of British rails.

The 805s & 807s have different seats, though the ride is the same and is unforgiving.

 

[skyhigh]

110mph ≈ 177kph.

They can temporarily only run at this speed on the WCML until the new MU speed profile comes in. They accelerate better than the voyagers so are coping OK with only PS profile speeds for now.

Which is what I was thinking. The OP seems to be under the impression that the units themselves are built for 100mph max, which they aren't.

 

[Iskra]

I agree that the LNER Azuma 1st class cabin is not deserving of the 1st class title. With the constant watering down of the 1st class catering offering, it's rarely worth bothering with. The last time I used it, I’d just come off a long haul BA flight in economy, and the economy service on the aircraft trumped the first class service provided by LNER.

The 180’s are comfortable, but unreliable.

 

[greyman42]

Despite what I was told, the train was comfortable, the ride quality 4/5 smooth and the seats extremely comfortable.

I don't think the ride quality on a class 180 has widely been criticised in the past. I have always found it to be good unlike the class 800s.

 

[hypercolius]

110mph ≈ 177kph.

They can temporarily only run at this speed on the WCML until the new MU speed profile comes in. They accelerate better than the voyagers so are coping OK with only PS profile speeds for now.


The 175s & 180s are generally regarded as good interiors but terribly mechanically.

The IETs and Azumas are known to ride terribly, IIRC Hitachi only did the calculations on ride when the components are new and not worn, and they overestimated the condition of British rails.

The 805s & 807s have different seats, though the ride is the same and is unforgiving.

Strangely enough my IET experiences were OK. I don't really remember them shaking much (based on what others were posting I think I was just lucky and got on the units which didn't have complaints about them).
But yes, the Azuma is dreadfully unsteady on the rails, it seemed to me. Not far off from the idiotically unsafe-feeling ride quality of the class 387

 

[hypercolius]

I agree that the LNER Azuma 1st class cabin is not deserving of the 1st class title. With the constant watering down of the 1st class catering offering, it's rarely worth bothering with. The last time I used it, I’d just come off a long haul BA flight in economy, and the economy service on the aircraft trumped the first class service provided by LNER.

The 180’s are comfortable, but unreliable.

Is the IC225 first class offering better?

 

[hypercolius]

I don't think the ride quality on a class 180 has widely been criticised in the past. I have always found it to be good unlike the class 800s.

There were a few youtube videos moaning about it

 

[Iskra]

Is the IC225 first class offering better?

It’s a more spacious, more premium feeling cabin, with more comfortable seats and better window alignment. The catering is the same.