Class 802 on MML Today

[Mattydo]

Hull Trains liveried. I'm assuming the Midland Mainline isn't a diversion for Hull Trains. Is this part of traction learning for the EMR lot or a cascade?

Actually scrap that it is a HT service according to their site. Conducting from EMR? Or do the drivers have to route learn this somehow. Must be a rare occasion they can find them a spare path but the TL south London route is also limited today.

 

[Silver Cobra]

Actually that is a Hull Trains service running to St Pancras instead of Kings Cross, due to the closure of the ECML between St Neots and Potters Bar this weekend for engineering works.

Engineering Works | Hull Trains

Keep up to the date with the latest planned engineering works information affecting Hull Trains from Network Rail.

www.hulltrains.co.uk

Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th June 2023: Due to engineering works taking place at London King's Cross, Hull Trains will run a reduced service arriving and departing from London St Pancras. Journey times will be extended due to the diversion and our services will not call at Cottingham, Beverley, Retford, Grantham or Stevenage.

• Advance tickets for Hull Trains services on Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th June are now available to book.
• Click here to view the confirmed amended timetable for Hull Trains services on 24th & 25th June 2023.
• Please note at this time we do not offer a catering service in standard class, buy before you board.
• For our latest timetable, visit our Timetables page.

Only Hull Trains are running this diversion, with LNER, Grand Central and Lumo terminating their services at Doncaster, Peterborough and/or St Neots.

 

[urpert]

ECML is closed south of St Neots so I think it’s a planned diversion to St Pancras.

 

[hexagon789]

Hull Trains liveried. I'm assuming the Midland Mainline isn't a diversion for Hull Trains. Is this part of traction learning for the EMR lot or a cascade?

Diverts due to King's Cross closure, not the first time Hull Trains have diverted into St Pancras either.

Two workings each way:

0805 and 1407 from Hull
1219 and 1818 to Hull, from St Pancras

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Realtime Trains | Departures from Luton all day on 24/06/2023

Train information at Luton all day on 24/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Looks like HT have been diverting via MML

 

[Trainguy34]

Hull Trains liveried. I'm assuming the Midland Mainline isn't a diversion for Hull Trains. Is this part of traction learning for the EMR lot or a cascade?

It is a diversion, used when the South ECML is closed, such as today

 

[Mattydo]

Thanks (beat me to my edit) that's an ... Unusually long divert hence the question. You don't see any of the other ECML traffic over here usually... I am very aware to the KX blockade having spent all afternoon on a boiling hot 222 and Northern getting to Leeds

 

[dan4291]

Quite a normal diversion for Hull Trains when then route to Kings Cross is closed. The drivers get conducted from Doncaster all the way to St. Pancras.

 

[gingertom]

interested to know if it ran diesel under the wires or if it panned up at Kettering?

 

[yorkshireguy21]

interested to know if it ran diesel under the wires or if it panned up at Kettering?

RTT suggests that it ran on diesel under the wires south of Kettering - only using electric between Temple Hirst Jn and Doncaster, as the train is re-pathed as "High Speed Train at 110mph" (HUL -> STP) https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:N50011/2023-06-24/detailed
The same appears for STP -> HUL: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:N50014/2023-06-24/detailed
But this may not be the case

 

[Edvid]

I'm pretty sure the 802s wouldn't have run on the Midland juice for two reasons:

* South of Bedford, all electric stock is limited to 100mph (work to make the Mk3 OLE suitable for 125mph starts this autumn)
* There are no power changeover zones on the MML (will likely be added as part of aforementioned work)

 

[Mattydo]

interested to know if it ran diesel under the wires or if it panned up at Kettering?

I don't believe the MML wires are cleared for over 100mph running yet in all sections.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jun 2023 ==

Quite a normal diversion for Hull Trains when then route to Kings Cross is closed. The drivers get conducted from Doncaster all the way to St. Pancras.

Interesting. I drive the route and it's the first time any of us have seen them.

 

[baz962]

I don't believe the MML wires are cleared for over 100mph running yet in all sections.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jun 2023 ==


Interesting. I drive the route and it's the first time any of us have seen them.

I saw one yesterday both on the up and the down. They were in st pancras one of the last times kings cross was closed, either earlier this year or late last year. Can't quite remember exactly when, but I asked for a peek around the cab on P2.

 

[43066]

Interesting. I drive the route and it's the first time any of us have seen them.

It’s happened before, earlier this year I believe? Last time I can specifically remember was a couple of years ago.

 

[dk1]

Yes it’s been done before with 802s. From what I recall they just stay in diesel mode.

 

[Mattydo]

It’s happened before, earlier this year I believe? Last time I can specifically remember was a couple of years ago.

Cheers. Interesting info. Quite a nice option for their customers instead of the bus from Bedford to St Neots.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2023 ==

Makes more sense knowing it's a conducted route too... Just struck me as quite a long stretch of diversionary route to keep their own drivers current on.

 

[andythebrave]

Cheers. Interesting info. Quite a nice option for their customers instead of the bus from Bedford to St Neots.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jun 2023 ==

Makes more sense knowing it's a conducted route too... Just struck me as quite a long stretch of diversionary route to keep their own drivers current on.

I'm curious about what exactly 'conducting' means in this context; is it that a (I suppose EMR) driver gives verbal cues for signal sighting, braking points and upcoming speed restrictions?

 

[baz962]

I'm curious about what exactly 'conducting' means in this context; is it that a (I suppose EMR) driver gives verbal cues for signal sighting, braking points and upcoming speed restrictions?

Although I don't know who does the conducting, that's how it generally works. You do indeed communicate the speed profile and signals when restrictive and braking/ stopping points . Gradients etc.

 

[TheBigD]

Which company does Hull Trains use to supply the route conductors for the MML?

I seem to recall Freightliner being mentioned previously somewhere but not 100% sure about it.

 

[LowLevel]

West Coast Railway Company last time round I think.

They've been running into St Pancras for years, 10 plus. I had a ride from Doncaster to do a 180 over the lines that avoid Sheffield many years ago.

 

[Clarence Yard]

HT have always had a pro-active diversionary strategy. Liverpool Street was the previous alternative terminus, which was never used iirc. But, in their early days, they once did a KX-Hull via Ipswich because of an all lines closure at Ferme Park.

 

[dan4291]

HT have always had a pro-active diversionary strategy. Liverpool Street was the previous alternative terminus, which was never used iirc. But, in their early days, they once did a KX-Hull via Ipswich because of an all lines closure at Ferme Park.

That'll have been because HT used drivers from the Anglia franchise in their early days so they will have signed via Ipswich. Long diversion though!

 

[gingertom]

what's involved in learning/signing the route? A little bit more than just being conducted a few times, I imagine.

 

[Clarence Yard]

That'll have been because HT used drivers from the Anglia franchise in their early days so they will have signed via Ipswich. Long diversion though!

Indeed they were! As was the unit. It wasn’t the same Liverpool St driver who, one weekend at the Street, couldn’t get his KX bound 170 going so he took the 86 and “big set” sitting on the next road over to the Cross for a trip to Donny and back. He was amazed at the amount of enthusiasts who were taking pictures as he flew down the ECML!

He was an ex-GN driver. The Track Access Manager who had the foresight to include cl.86 as alternative traction in the HT Track Access Agreement was ex-GN too! A “can do” attitude works wonders for the railway in such circumstances.

HT has always been “can do” with their diversion or alternative traction strategy.

 

[Eloise]

The Hull Trains diversion via the Midland Main Line is not common but has been done with 180s and 802s for some years. Diesel all the way Doncaster - St Pancras.

 

[pdeaves]

The Hull Trains diversion via the Midland Main Line is not common but has been done with 180s and 802s for some years. Diesel all the way Doncaster - St Pancras.

Occasions that I know of (most likely not all of them!) where Hull Trains ran to St Pancras are:
27 December 2014
24/25 August 2019
17/18 October 2020
5/6 June 2021
8 January 2023
18/19 February 2023
24/25 June 2023

The 2014 time was access to St Pancras but stretching it to say 'via MML' as it was via Finsbury Park wander round north London with three reversals and only a tiny bit of MML mileage! The others were, I believe, via MML proper.

 

[Mattydo]

The Hull Trains diversion via the Midland Main Line is not common but has been done with 180s and 802s for some years. Diesel all the way Doncaster - St Pancras.

Just stunned so many of us hadn't seen it before but not equally if it's just a day in a blue moon. Quite impressed that they have that sort of diversion.

 

[dk1]

Route conducting was always known as a driver showing another over a route they were not familiar or competent with. If the route conducting driver also signed that traction then they should take over the driving.

 

[Class 170101]

HT have always had a pro-active diversionary strategy. Liverpool Street was the previous alternative terminus, which was never used iirc. But, in their early days, they once did a KX-Hull via Ipswich because of an all lines closure at Ferme Park.

Yes heard about this one I think the lines had actually re-opened by thr time it got to Peterborough.

Occasions that I know of (most likely not all of them!) where Hull Trains ran to St Pancras are:
27 December 2014

The 2014 time was access to St Pancras but stretching it to say 'via MML' as it was via Finsbury Park wander round north London with three reversals and only a tiny bit of MML mileage! The others were, I believe, via MML proper.

Reverse at Harringay, over the Hornsey flyover reverse again then via Haringay Park Jn onto T&H then via Upper Holloway to West Hampstead, reverse again and into St Pancras, took a while, I was on it.

 

[Spursglory]

Is there a timetable that is available for Hull Trains services from St Pancras to to Hull via Junction Road, Upper Holloway, Crouch Hill, Harringay Park Junction, Hornsey Flyover and Ferme Park?