Class 800/801/802 etc IET ETCS

[Melancholia]

According to Wikipedia, Hitachi IET sets are fitted with ETCS. I've gone through Stadler's 745/755 fact sheets, and it said those are "prepared for ETCS installation", is that a similar case with 800/801/802 etc, or are they fitted with it, and ready to go "out of the box"?

Also another infrastructure related question, once Stockley Jn to Paddington on the GWML has ETCS infrastructure fitted in stages, would IETs be using it, or continue using current safety systems (ATP, TPWS/AWS)?

 

[Bald Rick]

The 80x are fitted.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

According to Wikipedia, Hitachi IET sets are fitted with ETCS. I've gone through Stadler's 745/755 fact sheets, and it said those are "prepared for ETCS installation", is that a similar case with 800/801/802 etc, or are they fitted with it, and ready to go "out of the box"?

Also another infrastructure related question, once Stockley Jn to Paddington on the GWML has ETCS infrastructure fitted in stages, would IETs be using it, or continue using current safety systems (ATP, TPWS/AWS)?

Fitted but not operable - the speed output is however used for a couple of semi safety-critical (but not signalling related) functions, as I understand it.

 

[rebmcr]

Fitted but not operable - the speed output is however used for a couple of semi safety-critical (but not signalling related) functions, as I understand it.

Like the door pressure seals?

 

[Melancholia]

Fitted but not operable - the speed output is however used for a couple of semi safety-critical (but not signalling related) functions, as I understand it.

Ah I see, thanks. Presumably some work would need to be done to have it fully operational.

 

[Mintona]

Fitted but not operable - the speed output is however used for a couple of semi safety-critical (but not signalling related) functions, as I understand it.

The ETCS screen in the cab is completely blank in service but I believe some part of the system does something because faults come up with it from time time.

It’s used on depots because it is quicker to set up than ATP.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Fitted but not operable - the speed output is however used for a couple of semi safety-critical (but not signalling related) functions, as I understand it.

But with no balises to drive it on any operable route (yet)?
Commissioning ETCS with the relevant stock hasn't been straightforward so far, on Heathrow and Cambrian routes.
And quite a while to wait until the southern ECML or eastern GWML is fitted.

 

[notadriver]

The ETCS screen in the cab is completely blank in service but I believe some part of the system does something because faults come up with it from time time.

It’s used on depots because it is quicker to set up than ATP.

On ours the ETCS screen has the speedometer as we don’t have an ATP analogue one fitted.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

But with no balises to drive it on any operable route (yet)?
Commissioning ETCS with the relevant stock hasn't been straightforward so far, on Heathrow and Cambrian routes.
And quite a while to wait until the southern ECML or eastern GWML is fitted.

I leave the disco lights on sticks routine to others more qualified than I, but I would guess from Mintona's comment above, that it's being used in "Level 0" mode on the depot, so arguably more operable than I realised.

 

[Wyrleybart]

I leave the disco lights on sticks routine to others more qualified than I, but I would guess from Mintona's comment above, that it's being used in "Level 0" mode on the depot, so arguably more operable than I realised.

Interesting. The major USP of signalling is to keep the trains apart from each other to avoid Abermule type incidents. ECTS just takes the mechanical signalling and converts it into radio and computer form. Moving trains around on depots obviously needs a lot of protection, unless you are trying to couple little trains together to make big trains. Remembering painful stories of trying to couple portions of 158s together at Machynlleth using ERTMS, I imagine depots such as Hitachi will be reaping the rewards of delay minutes.

 

[rebmcr]

Commissioning ETCS with the relevant stock hasn't been straightforward so far, on Heathrow and Cambrian routes.

Rumour has it the 387s to Heathrow are behaving themselves from the outset, while the 345s remain on the naughty step.

 

[Melancholia]

Rumour has it the 387s to Heathrow are behaving themselves from the outset, while the 345s remain on the naughty step.

Those test runs last week actually went really well, which I'm surprised about.

 

[craigybagel]

Fitted but not operable - the speed output is however used for a couple of semi safety-critical (but not signalling related) functions, as I understand it.

The ETCS screen in the cab is completely blank in service but I believe some part of the system does something because faults come up with it from time time.

It’s used on depots because it is quicker to set up than ATP.

Interesting. On the TfW 158s you pretty much have to run in level 0 at the very least - the only way to switch off ERTMS is to isolate it altogether, and if that is done it can only be reinstated by a fitter using a special key. In level 0 the screen shows a speedometer - the analogue speedometer only activates if ERTMS is isolated. I'm surprised things are different on the 800s

 

[Mintona]

Interesting. On the TfW 158s you pretty much have to run in level 0 at the very least - the only way to switch off ERTMS is to isolate it altogether, and if that is done it can only be reinstated by a fitter using a special key. In level 0 the screen shows a speedometer - the analogue speedometer only activates if ERTMS is isolated. I'm surprised things are different on the 800s

An 800 has a rotary switch to flip from ETCS to ATP and as ATP is always in use on the GWML it is always pointing that way, so ETCS is off. You can’t have both running at the same time.

 

[Horizon22]

Rumour has it the 387s to Heathrow are behaving themselves from the outset, while the 345s remain on the naughty step.

Quite. Its been quite remarkable how unremarkable the 387s the test runs have been.

 

[craigybagel]

An 800 has a rotary switch to flip from ETCS to ATP and as ATP is always in use on the GWML it is always pointing that way, so ETCS is off. You can’t have both running at the same time.

Ah of course, I forgot that you have ATP thrown into the mix out there. I wonder how things work with the sets at other TOCs that don't run on ATP fitted routes?

 

[JacobSearle04]

It may have already been answered but how can you tell the difference between the GWR 800s

 

[Energy]

It may have already been answered but how can you tell the difference between the GWR 800s

/0s are 5 cars long
/3s are 9 cars long
All 802s have the GWR logo on the yellow bit.

 

[JacobSearle04]

/0s are 5 cars long
/3s are 9 cars long
All 802s have the GWR logo on the yellow bit.

The yellow bit us that the light that comes on when the doors are unlocked or is it something else

 

[Domh245]

The yellow bit us that the light that comes on when the doors are unlocked or is it something else

In this context, I believe @Energy is referring to the front of the train, but all of the units have the GWR logo there that I can tell

The only difference between 800 and 802 that is 'easy' to spot is on the 5 cars - an 800 will have a duller finish because of the vinyls with flashes of white along the train (door surrounds, cameras, vehicle ends/roofs) whereas a 5 car 802 will be all over painted green. There is no easy way to tell apart 9 car 800s and 802s short of seeing the number.

 

[JacobSearle04]

Ok so the 5 car 800 and 802 are easy to tell apart but the 9 car ones aren't and isn't the yellow bit called the warning panel.

(door surrounds, cameras, vehicle ends/roofs)

And what about that I don't really understand that part

 

[Domh245]

Ok so the 5 car 800 and 802 are easy to tell apart but the 9 car ones aren't and isn't the yellow bit called the warning panel.

And what about that I don't really understand that part

The yellow bit could properly be called a warning panel, yes.

If you compare this image of an 800/0 and this image of an 802 it might help. The 800/0s are painted white and have green vinyl applied to make up the livery, but only to 'easy' surfaces. The driver's door, as well as the bit around each normal door, yaw damper, the bodyside camera, and a few other places show the white paint still.

 

[Energy]

In this context, I believe @Energy is referring to the front of the train, but all of the units have the GWR logo there that I can tell

The one on the yellow section at the front of the train I believe is only 802s, I haven't seen an 800 with it. This is a bit off topic although I doubt it will require much further discussion.

 

[Domh245]

The one on the yellow section at the front of the train I believe is only 802s, I haven't seen an 800 with it.

Photographic evidence says otherwise

[1] [2] [3] [4]

 

[Energy]

Photographic evidence says otherwise

[1] [2] [3] [4]

Interesting, they must have put them on at some point as they didn't originally have it