Class 777's - transparent cab doors?

[Meerkat]

I doubt it would have got past ASLEF to have the windows unfrosted/uncovered.

What have train drivers got to hide that bus and tram drivers don’t?

 

[Energy]

What have train drivers got to hide that bus and tram drivers don’t?

Not sure, its been on ICE3 trains in Germany for ages, whether its frosted or not is left to the driver (I think) and I'd imagine thats how Merseyrail do it. If ASLEF complain then their drivers can just set it to frosted.

 

[notadriver]

In

Not sure, its been on ICE3 trains in Germany for ages, whether its frosted or not is left to the driver (I think) and I'd imagine thats how Merseyrail do it. If ASLEF complain then their drivers can just set it to frosted.

In Germany and Japan it seems normal to have the front view available through a window. Paris metro also does this but not other French sncf trains.

 

[hexagon789]

I doubt it would have got past ASLEF to have the windows unfrosted/uncovered.

But I was saying the exact opposite, why wouldn't they go back to either completely opaque glass or solid panels.

 

[the sniper]

What have train drivers got to hide that bus and tram drivers don’t?

It's not like there haven't been issues on buses and trams with their drivers/operators being so exposed.

As for the comparisons to ICE, Japan or 101s on preserved railways, these serve a different clientele to units running around a British inner city suburban network, where some of the local yobbos and junkies might not be so respectful of the drivers need to concentrate, rather than watching over their shoulder.

It'd be nice to think with this set up, if there was some keen kid riding behind the cab into his trains and the driver finds out, they have the option to turn off the frosting. A modern version of getting a cab ride, at the drivers discretion, as it used to be.

 

[HarryL]

Not sure, its been on ICE3 trains in Germany for ages, whether its frosted or not is left to the driver (I think) and I'd imagine thats how Merseyrail do it.

That's what I assume will happen too, a switch in the cab so that the driver can frost it if they aren't comfortable being in view, or can leave it if they're okay with it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But I was saying the exact opposite, why wouldn't they go back to either completely opaque glass or solid panels.

Because Merseytravel had an idea before it asked the staff if they liked it?

It's much costlier to change materials or structural elements than it is to change software is probably the answer. Yes, they could stick sticky backed plastic on it, but if software does the job why do that?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jul 2021 ==

It'd be nice to think with this set up, if there was some keen kid riding behind the cab into his trains and the driver finds out, they have the option to turn off the frosting. A modern version of getting a cab ride, at the drivers discretion, as it used to be.

I doubt that will be offered (someone above said it's planned to be on the driver's key). However being able to look out of the back will still be good, assuming the guards don't insist on that being blanked too! (I assume the intention is the guards will generally work from the passenger compartment - are there even guard controls in the cab?)

I hope a rear view is possible for one key reason - I really want to see (out of pure intrigue), and have done for a while, the "header tunnel" on the left as you enter Liverpool Central!

It's a bit different from Metrolink as that has had the view since day one, so it's not a change of working conditions.

 

[the sniper]

I doubt that will be offered (someone above said it's planned to be on the driver's key).

You may well be correct, but on many new units the headlights are also automatically turned on and off by the driver keying in, but they can still be turned off manually. That's more through necessity though.

 

[507 001]

That seems a reasonable intention but it is a shame that the feature now won't be used, at least for the leading cab.


If it was changed after ordering, couldn't they have just put in pre-blacked glass or even a solid partition then? Seems pointless going to the expense of having the special glass but for now real purpose now.

They were always going to have the ability to frost the glass, originally it was going to be selectable by pressing a button, the spec was changed to make it automatic when keyed in.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jul 2021 ==

What have train drivers got to hide that bus and tram drivers don’t?

To be fair, it’s horrible trying to see at night with the reflections from the saloon on the windscreen. It’s noticeably worse on Metrolink’s entirely segregated routes with no streetlights…

 

[ScottGallagher]

The fact that all DMU since the MK1 haven't had this feature must indicate that the drivers didn't want it then to this day hence for example the pacers didn't have them.

 

[notadriver]

It's not like there haven't been issues on buses and trams with their drivers/operators being so exposed.

As for the comparisons to ICE, Japan or 101s on preserved railways, these serve a different clientele to units running around a British inner city suburban network, where some of the local yobbos and junkies might not be so respectful of the drivers need to concentrate, rather than watching over their shoulder.

It'd be nice to think with this set up, if there was some keen kid riding behind the cab into his trains and the driver finds out, they have the option to turn off the frosting. A modern version of getting a cab ride, at the drivers discretion, as it used to be.

The worry for me people might start getting aggressive if the driver turns down a request to turn the frosting off. It’s not just kids interested in ‘cab rides’.

 

[wobman]

It shows how the units specs were agreed with out drivers input regarding this feature, drivers don't need to be distracted whilst driving the train. Imagine if an incident happened due to the driver being distracted and as some posters are comparing the Japanese trains to the 777 units. One big element is the big cultural differences in between the 2 society's.

I don't understand how some posters always compare bus operations and train operations, they are so completely different in many ways.

 

[RuddA]

Would the clear glass allow you to see between units when running in multiple?

 

[Tomnick]

What have train drivers got to hide that bus and tram drivers don’t?

For me, it's not so much having something to hide, as fearing "trial by social media" when seen to be doing something like using a "phone" (GSM-R, legitimately) whilst driving, having something to eat on the move, reaching down into a bag to get a drink, that sort of thing - because it's fundamentally a different job to bus or tram driving, and what's unacceptable for one is tolerable or even necessary for the other, but the travelling public perhaps don't appreciate that.

 

[alangla]

As for the comparisons to ICE, Japan or 101s on preserved railways, these serve a different clientele to units running around a British inner city suburban network,

Not in the current era certainly, but class 303 & 311 units on the Glasgow (and Manchester) suburban lines had a forward view through the cab from new until refurbishment (some 303s) or withdrawal (other 303s/311s). You can see it here- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_311#/media/File:311092_at_Glasgow_Central.jpg

 

[the sniper]

Not in the current era certainly, but class 303 & 311 units on the Glasgow (and Manchester) suburban lines had a forward view through the cab from new until refurbishment (some 303s) or withdrawal (other 303s/311s). You can see it here- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_311#/media/File:311092_at_Glasgow_Central.jpg

Indeed, but as you say, different era, different railway, different world. The thinking in the late 1950s can't just be carried over to the 2020s.

 

[Skipness]

As a bus or coach driver I’m fine being in full view of passengers. Some buses even have a front seat next to the driver for that ‘driver’ view. But I wouldn’t be comfortable as a train driver knowing someone was looking over my shoulder. It’s weird that.

I can well remember driving a coachload of HGV drivers down the M1 and every time I looked into the internal mirror there was an echelon (for want of a better word) of heads/eyes observing the road ahead.