Class 76's to the rescue?

[40012Railrover]

Hi All,

Does anybody have any evidence to suggest that Class 76's ever rescued a failed passenger train (presumably a Class 506 EMU)? Such a rescue would have been technically possible, with the EM1 dragging the EMU into Piccadilly. I have no idea if this ever took place, but I would like to know if there is any anecdotal evidence of a rescue - this is because I am just about to add Class 76 into the new version of 'Hellfire', and want to allow for such rescues of Class 506 EMUs.

Cheers

Mike

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Technically possible of course - but any paper based records (i.e Control logs) are long , long lost - unless someone at the time thought this was unusual and retained a personal copy.....

 

[RichmondCommu]

Having been born and bred in Derbyshire I have a few books on the Woodhead route and cannot recall seeing any pictures of a class 76 dragging a class 506. One would have thought that such an event would have warranted a photograph which would have then been published.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just a quick thought. If a class 506 had indeed been dragged by a class 76 I wonder how they would gone about opening the doors at any of the stations if a class 506 had lost all power.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Just a quick thought. If a class 506 had indeed been dragged by a class 76 I wonder how they would gone about opening the doors at any of the stations if a class 506 had lost all power

Had it happened - the train would have been out of service at the first opportunity - doors manually released by the guard and empty to depot.

 

[D841 Roebuck]

Assuming the new station (fitted with lots of deckchairs ) is Guide Bridge, then the dual or vacuum braked members of the class could theoretically be summoned from the stabling point to drag the DMU on the Marple-Manchester (via Guide Bridge) local service in to Piccadilly. There might be a problem going the other way, though!

One other potential addition/tweak. Occasionally trains failed in the last mile before a station and were dragged in by a local shunter - 03/08/09, possibly 06 at Dundee maybe even 02 at Liverpool. I don't know if the software can be tweaked to distinguish between "gronkable" failures and those too far distant, but it might be something to consider adding...

 

[D6975]

Assuming the new station (fitted with lots of deckchairs ) is Guide Bridge, then the dual or vacuum braked members of the class could theoretically be summoned from the stabling point to drag the DMU on the Marple-Manchester (via Guide Bridge) local service in to Piccadilly. There might be a problem going the other way, though!

One other potential addition/tweak. Occasionally trains failed in the last mile before a station and were dragged in by a local shunter - 03/08/09, possibly 06 at Dundee maybe even 02 at Liverpool. I don't know if the software can be tweaked to distinguish between "gronkable" failures and those too far distant, but it might be something to consider adding...

Happened to me once. Leaving Crewe with a pair of 31/4s dragging a can because the power was off, one of them blew up as we pulled off, the other one blew up as we passed the carriage shed. An 08 dragged us back to the station and removed the 31s.

 

[billh]

The 506 EMU's were very reliable. A failure in service was rare, so an EM1 rescue would be unlikely- I certainly never saw one. I did see a DMU dragged by, I think ,a 25 near Ashbury's, lots of years ago. I do recall being on a 506 from Piccadilly and all the signalling went off due to a lineside fire. Much flag waving from Gorton Junction 'box, got the trains running again after a short delay.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The 506 EMU's were very reliable. A failure in service was rare, so an EM1 rescue would be unlikely- I certainly never saw one.

Further information from a retired Guide Bridge driver: broken 506s were recovered with another 506 unit to maintain brake & door compatibility. He never saw or heard of EM1s being used for this. Am I right to think that EM1s were all vacuum braked until the early 1970's when some were dual fitted , and some scrapped?

 

[40012Railrover]

Thanks everybody for the replies - I think I'll have to keep the EM1's for railtour use only! (New feature in the next version of Hellfire).

Cheers All,

Mike

 

[Taunton]

Further information from a retired Guide Bridge driver: broken 506s were recovered with another 506 unit to maintain brake & door compatibility. He never saw or heard of EM1s being used for this. Am I right to think that EM1s were all vacuum braked until the early 1970's when some were dual fitted , and some scrapped?

The 506s must have been reliable. There were eight of them. With three trains required to hold down the half-hourly Hadfield service, and with them always, in my experience, operating as 6-car trains, that was six accounted for; with one normally away at Horwich works for overhaul there would be just one left for light maintenance and spare at Reddish depot, which was well away from the route. Of course, as they were always run as 6-car trains, there was duplicate everything to get out of any problem.

You also have to bear in mind that, compared to nowadays, this generation of trains were extraordinarily reliable; I spent many years on the Wirral lines in the 1960s-70s, where some of the trains got to over 40 years old, and never experienced a single cancellation or even delay. Which can't be said about their successors.

On a railway that ran large numbers of unfitted trains (including much of what the EM1s otherwise handled), nobody would be too worried about recovery of an unbraked unit if it was blocking the line, provided a guard was on the handbrake in the rear van. Of course, that was how such units, anyway, were got to/from Horwich works.

 

[AM9]

The 506s must have been reliable. There were eight of them. With three trains required to hold down the half-hourly Hadfield service, and with them always, in my experience, operating as 6-car trains, that was six accounted for; with one normally away at Horwich works for overhaul there would be just one left for light maintenance and spare at Reddish depot, which was well away from the route. Of course, as they were always run as 6-car trains, there was duplicate everything to get out of any problem.

You also have to bear in mind that, compared to nowadays, this generation of trains were extraordinarily reliable; I spent many years on the Wirral lines in the 1960s-70s, where some of the trains got to over 40 years old, and never experienced a single cancellation or even delay. Which can't be said about their successors.

On a railway that ran large numbers of unfitted trains (including much of what the EM1s otherwise handled), nobody would be too worried about recovery of an unbraked unit if it was blocking the line, provided a guard was on the handbrake in the rear van. Of course, that was how such units, anyway, were got to/from Horwich works.

Similarly, the 306s were reliable (basically the same units, modified for ac in 1960 'ish). Of course they did occasionally have problems - I think usually with the contactors going haywire during serial to parallel changeover, but considering there were 93 three-car sets, I used them daily and never had one let me down. Sometimes, they seemed to pull away very quietly, maybe that was because there was a breakdown on one unit. the other two carried it, (they were permanently coupled as 3 x three cars.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Not sure if the 506s always ran as 6-car sets - if you google photos of them, there are loads in service as 3-car trains.

 

[306024]

Certainly 506s ran as 3 cars off peak, vaguely recall travelling on a 6 car in the peak.

9 car 306s were proper trains though

 

[Taunton]

There was a timetable change in the late 1970s, under Greater Manchester Transport influence, towards the end of the 1500v operation, and after I stopped using it, when all frequencies were doubled. Previously it had been a very thin hourly stopping service off-peak, and every 30 minutes in the peak, this latter requiring the 3 x 6-car sets. It was enhanced to 30/15 minutes (better than today in the peak). They must have knocked the trains down to 3-car to double the frequency, unless some were done by dmus.

To make up for the only hourly service off-peak a handful of the Woodhead expresses to Sheffield had stopped at places like Dinting or Hadfield.

http://www.timetableworld.com/book_viewer.php?id=2&section_id=-1

 

[sheff'd victoria]

We are informed by ex BBC Look North Transport presenter " Alan Whitehouse " that around 1980 a Sheffield Midland - Huddersfield DMU failed near Sheffield Victoria, it was taken to Penistone by 2x class 76's before transferring onto another DMU that had been sent down.

 

[40012Railrover]

We are informed by ex BBC Look North Transport presenter " Alan Whitehouse " that around 1980 a Sheffield Midland - Huddersfield DMU failed near Sheffield Victoria, it was taken to Penistone by 2x class 76's before transferring onto another DMU that had been sent down.

Wow! So it DID happen then! Many thanks for the info! Wasn't thinking about a rescue on the Yorkshire side, but it would make more sense.

Cheers

Mike

 

[RichmondCommu]

We are informed by ex BBC Look North Transport presenter " Alan Whitehouse " that around 1980 a Sheffield Midland - Huddersfield DMU failed near Sheffield Victoria, it was taken to Penistone by 2x class 76's before transferring onto another DMU that had been sent down.

For what its worth Alan is the author of an excellent book covering the Woodhead route which is well worth buying if you have the funds.