Class 745 Stadler FLIRTs

[supervc-10]

On-train it has more to do with journey length, I'd think. I've used on-train catering (primarily for a cup of tea or coffee) on both business and leisure travel.

Commuters are probably the least likely to use it, I'd think, as they'll either have a regular station outlet they use or they'll bring a flask.

That's what I mean- maybe simply saying 'leisure' isn't all of it. Regular train users don't tend to use on board catering, for exactly the reasons you state. My dad's a regular commuter from Salisbury to London- he takes a flask up to London, and (until covid) refilled at a Nero/Costa/Starbucks on the way home.

 

[dk1]

That's what I mean- maybe simply saying 'leisure' isn't all of it. Regular train users don't tend to use on board catering, for exactly the reasons you state. My dad's a regular commuter from Salisbury to London- he takes a flask up to London, and (until covid) refilled at a Nero/Costa/Starbucks on the way home.

That's quite sweet. My Grandparents used a flask but didn't realise people still did. Just need a tartan blanket across the knees now haha.

 

[ashkeba]

That's quite sweet. My Grandparents used a flask but didn't realise people still did. Just need a tartan blanket across the knees now haha.

You may be thinking of an old Bakelite Thermos. Modern flasks look more like sports water bottles but in shiny metal.

Can they be refilled at the FLIRT buffets in normal times?

 

[dk1]

You may be thinking of an old Bakelite Thermos. Modern flasks look more like sports water bottles but in shiny metal.

Can they be refilled at the FLIRT buffets in normal times?

Oh those. Yeah we get them issued at work. Must have half a dozen in the cupboard.

 

[supervc-10]

That's quite sweet. My Grandparents used a flask but didn't realise people still did. Just need a tartan blanket across the knees now haha.

Haha maybe that's what I should get him for Christmas.

He's trying to minimise his environmental impact. I say flask, really it's just a thermos style coffee mug. I do the same on my commute, only I have my coffee in the car!

Part of the issue with refilling things is that a lot of on-board catering is now on trolleys and they have pre-filled instant coffee cups, rather than a coffee machine that you can refill a thermos from. I know Avanti have (had?) coffee machines in the shop on the Pendolinos, not sure though if you could fit a thermos in it though like the larger machines in coffee shops.

 

[86246]

That's what I mean- maybe simply saying 'leisure' isn't all of it. Regular train users don't tend to use on board catering, for exactly the reasons you state. My dad's a regular commuter from Salisbury to London- he takes a flask up to London, and (until covid) refilled at a Nero/Costa/Starbucks on the way home.

There have been a couple of occasions at weekends where I have given up using the GA cafe bar due to the length of the queue. One of those was on a Sunday when there were through services. I can’t remember the outcome of the Sunday dispute from earlier this year. There was gentleman who would regularly board the Cafe Bar coach at Stowmarket to make a daily purchase.

We mustn’t forget that pre Covid there was plenty of business travel from Norwich/Ipswich for a day of meetings in London that I saw help the catering income.

 

[trebor79]

We mustn’t forget that pre Covid there was plenty of business travel from Norwich/Ipswich for a day of meetings in London that I saw help the catering income.

Yes several time a week for me the past year or so from Diss. Used to enjoy my porridge and tea on the train on the way in and I'd quite often get a snack and hot drink on the way home too. It'll come again. Personally I can't wait to get back to face to face meetings and I know many of my colleagues feel the same.

 

[LAX54]

Interesing state of affairs today... 17:02 LST-NRW, & 19:20 NRW-LST 8V12 coaches, shortage of serviceable stock

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Oct 2020 ==

Oh those. Yeah we get them issued at work. Must have half a dozen in the cupboard.

Any spare GA Flasks....send them our way

 

[samuelmorris]

Interesing state of affairs today... 17:02 LST-NRW, & 19:20 NRW-LST 8V12 coaches, shortage of serviceable stock

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Oct 2020 ==



Any spare GA Flasks....send them our way

Wasn't that diagram always 321 operated?

 

[86246]

Wasn't that diagram always 321 operated?

Yes, those services are bins.

 

[dk1]

Interesing state of affairs today... 17:02 LST-NRW, & 19:20 NRW-LST 8V12 coaches, shortage of serviceable stock

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Oct 2020 ==



Any spare GA Flasks....send them our way

Will have a look. Could do with clearing some stuff out mate.

 

[Dave1987]

I wouldn't be so sure. Catering on trains is a loss-leader anyway. It's something that will encourage passengers back to the train when the hysteria over COVID recedes. In fact, the people who are more likely to avail themselves of a catering offer are probably amongst the first to return. Those who tend not to use the buffet anyway will probably keep driving or working remotely for longer. So even if passenger loadings never fully recover, that doesn't necessarily mean the catering operation will be losing more money.

So why did Chiltern ditch their catering on the London to Birmingham run saying it was a major loss leader that wasn’t sustainable? If it encourages people back to traveling by train why aren’t all services throughout the country that are roughly 1hr 40 mins offering catering even though it’s a loss leader?

 

[trebor79]

So why did Chiltern ditch their catering on the London to Birmingham run saying it was a major loss leader that wasn’t sustainable? If it encourages people back to traveling by train why aren’t all services throughout the country that are roughly 1hr 40 mins offering catering even though it’s a loss leader?

Perhaps Chiltern worked out they didn't need the catering offer to sell lots of seats.
Post-COVID things will be different. Catering will help get bums back on seats. It's not a silver bullet, but one of a number of things that trains can do better than the alternatives.

 

[Class 170101]

So why did Chiltern ditch their catering on the London to Birmingham run saying it was a major loss leader that wasn’t sustainable? If it encourages people back to traveling by train why aren’t all services throughout the country that are roughly 1hr 40 mins offering catering even though it’s a loss leader?

Perhaps Chiltern worked out they didn't need the catering offer to sell lots of seats.
Post-COVID things will be different. Catering will help get bums back on seats. It's not a silver bullet, but one of a number of things that trains can do better than the alternatives.

Will depend upon the prices charged I think. Lots of people either use station retail or come prepared these days due to on train costs.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Are 745008 and 745102 still to enter service?

 

[dk1]

Are 745008 and 745102 still to enter service?

Yes, still testing.

 

[Abbo]

So why did Chiltern ditch their catering on the London to Birmingham run saying it was a major loss leader that wasn’t sustainable? If it encourages people back to traveling by train why aren’t all services throughout the country that are roughly 1hr 40 mins offering catering even though it’s a loss leader?

This is not a new conundrum. I was in Norwich TMO in the early 60's and the catering folk wanted to withdraw full catering facilties sa not covering costs. The operating people said each transaction shouldn't be seen as stand alone and the provision of catering should be seen in the same light as the provisaion of a loco i.e. part of the overall demands on the ticket price. The operating people won.

 

[Stortford soul]

Observed 745 006 on Stansted - LST diagram at Tottenham Hale at 14:23 Sunday Nov 8.

 

[Bikeman78]

I had my first run on a 745 on Stansted Express on Friday. Pleasant enough but I prefer the IETs to be honest. The toilet was a challenge. The tap switched on and off at least 10 times whilst I tried to wash my hands. Most modern trains have a panel above the sink so you have to guess where the tap is, along with the sensor to make it work. Why is this? What is hidden behind the panel? A button to make the tap work would be a lot easier, e.g. like the 379s.

 

[trebor79]

I had my first run on a 745 on Stansted Express on Friday. Pleasant enough but I prefer the IETs to be honest. The toilet was a challenge. The tap switched on and off at least 10 times whilst I tried to wash my hands. Most modern trains have a panel above the sink so you have to guess where the tap is, along with the sensor to make it work. Why is this? What is hidden behind the panel? A button to make the tap work would be a lot easier, e.g. like the 379s.

Toilet sinks are the only bad aspect of the 745's and 755's. I agree it's difficult to wash your hands properly, because the sensor seems to be to one side of where the water comes out, and it stops running about a millisecond after you move your hand away from the sensor to the water.
on the 755's at least, after about 6 times there's a loud "clunk" from behind the panel and no water water will be dispensed. I guess some kind of shut off to prevent inadvertent draining of the tank if the sensor plays up. Must autoreset after a while.
FWIW I find the disabled toilets don't suffer as badly from the problem as the smaller cubicle. I have no idea why this should be though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Toilet sinks are the only bad aspect of the 745's and 755's. I agree it's difficult to wash your hands properly, because the sensor seems to be to one side of where the water comes out, and it stops running about a millisecond after you move your hand away from the sensor to the water.

The problem with this (and many similar things e.g. TVM screens) is that they are primarily designed for someone in a wheelchair to use, and so because they are low down they make things difficult for a standing adult, particularly one who can't bend due to a back problem (which is also a disability, but one that is often ignored for some reason). There really could do with some thought being put into how to design it so it works well for both.

Not having a button is more hygienic. BR used to have foot pedals but they wouldn't be disability compliant.

 

[TheEdge]

The problem with this (and many similar things e.g. TVM screens) is that they are primarily designed for someone in a wheelchair to use, and so because they are low down they make things difficult for a standing adult, particularly one who can't bend due to a back problem (which is also a disability, but one that is often ignored for some reason). There really could do with some thought being put into how to design it so it works well for both.

Not having a button is more hygienic. BR used to have foot pedals but they wouldn't be disability compliant.

Why not both? A foot pedal for the abled and the sensors for the disabled.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why not both? A foot pedal for the abled and the sensors for the disabled.

Cost?

 

[TheEdge]

Cost?

I feel like the cost of fitting a small switch and electrical circuit to the sink must be fairly insignificant compared to the size of the whole order.

 

[dk1]

I feel like the cost of fitting a small switch and electrical circuit to the sink must be fairly insignificant compared to the size of the whole order.

I use the onboard toilets several times a day and have no issue with anything about them. The hand dryers in particular are excellent.

 

[43096]

I use the onboard toilets several times a day and have no issue with anything about them. The hand dryers in particular are excellent.

I was going to say that from my limited experience of them, I thought the toilets were better than virtually ever other “robo-bog” design. In particular, hot air actually coming from the dryers is a novelty.

 

[trebor79]

I use the onboard toilets several times a day and have no issue with anything about them. The hand dryers in particular are excellent.

Oh yes the driers are very good. Perhaps it's just me - I did find that I was having less problems with washing my hands as time went on, though I've barely travelled since March of course, so perhaps there's a 'knack' to it.
The enhanced cleaning regime in place for COVID is also helpful because the small cubicles were tending to sport a ring of dried urine mist halfway up the walls.

 

[TheEdge]

I use the onboard toilets several times a day and have no issue with anything about them. The hand dryers in particular are excellent.

I always find the taps temperamental at best!

 

[dk1]

I always find the taps temperamental at best!

I find you pretty much the same

 

[Bikeman78]

I use the onboard toilets several times a day and have no issue with anything about them. The hand dryers in particular are excellent.

I must admit that I didn't try the hand dryer because most are so feeble it's not worth the bother. My question still stands. Why does there need to be anything above the sink? On a 317 or 321 there is nothing above the sink. It's easy to see the tap, how it works and where the water comes out. No guessing where the sensor is.