Class 745 Stadler FLIRTs

[St. Paddy]

007 about to try out the wheel lathe at Hornsey this morning

 

[Railperf]

Okay so just quickly for us none London folk, can someone give a summary of how the roll out is going and whether 379s or 321s/755s still replace 745s in service on both routes?

As far as i can tell 745s are in charge of most London to Norwich services unless a failure occurs. 755's will deputise for a 745 from Norwich as far as Colchester. Otherwise 321s can also be used between London and Norwich but not sure how often this happens lately. Seems more likely that a 755 will run the Northern section and dump passengers out at Colchester where they can Swap to a GE service.
On the Stansted route it seems there are only 5 diagrams - 2 are run by 745s today - the remaining three diagrams would normally be filled by 379s but at least 1 pair of 317s were on Stansted yesterday.
The 755s seem fully rolled out - so we await enough available 745s to fill the remaining diagrams on Stansted. Of course bear in mind that both the Norwich and Stansted diagrams are still on a reduced service - so it should theoretically be easier to have all of the units in sercice unless there are other operational issues preventing this.
EDIT: seems a few Stansted units in regular use on Norwich services as journey check reporting no first class!

 

[Bald Rick]

007 about to try out the wheel lathe at Hornsey this morning View attachment 82429

“Ah, 007, we’ve been expecting you”

 

[Railperf]

On the Stansted Express a lot of it boils down to not going at linespeed constantly. Departing Tottenham on the down road there's no point in getting up to 85 to just catch up the Hertford eg along the valley, also gives the Signaller a better chance of sorting out the crossings.

Drivers seem to be setting 70 or 80 on the speed set out of Tottenham Hale - easily reached before the neutral section. Whereas the slower 317s are often driven flat out in comparison.
If the Hertford is on time- it will be sitting in Broxbourne well ahead. But yes the crossings do all need clearing which causes frequent braking as drivers are almost always seeing double yellows not far ahead. Be nice to see the route upgraded to allow higher speeds - which would require closure of many of those crossings.

On another note..i saw first hand that many customers are choosing to put their suitcases in front of them on the floor in the face to face seat bays - which due to a lack of legroom renders it impossible for anyone to sit in the seats opposite.
Thats not an issue in these COVID social distancing times - but could be if passenger levels ever reach pre COVID numbers on busy services.
Few passengers putting luggage on the racks above or on the rack by the door.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Aug 2020 ==

“Ah, 007, we’ve been expecting you”

Aren't there a pair of Stansted units needing the lathe urgently before they can enter service?

 

[Bald Rick]

On the Stansted Express a lot of it boils down to not going at linespeed constantly. Departing Tottenham on the down road there's no point in getting up to 85 to just catch up the Hertford eg along the valley, also gives the Signaller a better chance of sorting out the crossings.

It’s essential that drivers get away from station stops on the Lea Valley as quickly as possible, as just about everything is on minimum headway at some point on the corridor.

Be nice to see the route upgraded to allow higher speeds - which would require closure of many of those crossings.

But there’s no point going faster, as you just catch up the previous train earlier. Linespeed improvements on the core Lea Valley would not result in any reduced journey times. Unless, of course, station calls are removed from the slower trains on the corridor.

 

[Railperf]

It’s essential that drivers get away from station stops on the Lea Valley as quickly as possible, as just about everything is on minimum headway at some point on the corridor.



But there’s no point going faster, as you just catch up the previous train earlier. Linespeed improvements on the core Lea Valley would not result in any reduced journey times. Unless, of course, station calls are removed from the slower trains on the corridor.

The current timetable is not too intense - fewer services running.
Lomg term - faster speeds hinge on four tracking Tottenham Hale to Broxbourne. Then you could separate faster and slower services. Until then the 745s are severely constrained performance wise - barely able to run at 80mph for any distance. But at least they provide additional capacity in theory.
I guess the 100mph capability was more for interchangeability with Norwich diagrams.

 

[Bald Rick]

The current timetable is not too intense - fewer services running.
Lomg term - faster speeds hinge on four tracking Tottenham Hale to Broxbourne. Then you could separate faster and slower services. Until then the 745s are severely constrained performance wise - barely able to run at 80mph for any distance. But at least they provide additional capacity in theory.
I guess the 100mph capability was more for interchangeability with Norwich diagrams.

I’d expect the StEx to be back to normal as soon as the trains are available. The airport is getting busier in terms of flights if not people, albeit not back to normal. But certainly as busy as it has been at other times in the past 20 years where 4tph to London were necessary.

I imagine that the 100mph capability is also to take into account future upgrades, but also if the units were to go elsewhere during their life. Bit surprised they weren’t 110 capable (although I suspect they probably are, with minor mods).

 

[Midnight Sun]

“Ah, 007, we’ve been expecting you”

"Right. Now pay attention, 007. I want you to take great care of this equipment. There are one or two rather special accessories..."

 

[47421]

I’d expect the StEx to be back to normal as soon as the trains are available. The airport is getting busier in terms of flights if not people, albeit not back to normal. But certainly as busy as it has been at other times in the past 20 years where 4tph to London were necessary.

I imagine that the 100mph capability is also to take into account future upgrades, but also if the units were to go elsewhere during their life. Bit surprised they weren’t 110 capable (although I suspect they probably are, with minor mods).

Well traditionally much of the traffic on StanExp has been Stortford and Harlow commuters, and a 745 is 50%+ capacity increase on 8x379, so a half-hourly 745 will probably suffice for a while yet.

On StanExp 745s wont run at more than 80mph other than a mile or so at 85 just north of Brox. Once 745s and 720s displace all the 317s and 379s we may see some journey time improvements, as better acceleration on 720s means they get out of the way quicker. But that needs all 720s to be in service, and no one knows when that might happen. Also needs timetable recast, which needs KX remodelling / East coast recast to happen as that affects West Anglia at Cambridge. Pre-covid that recast was scheduled for Dec 21.

 

[MrPIC]

Drivers seem to be setting 70 or 80 on the speed set out of Tottenham Hale - easily reached before the neutral section. Whereas the slower 317s are often driven flat out in comparison.
If the Hertford is on time- it will be sitting in Broxbourne well ahead. But yes the crossings do all need clearing which causes frequent braking as drivers are almost always seeing double yellows not far ahead. Be nice to see the route upgraded to allow higher speeds - which would require closure of many of those crossings.

On another note..i saw first hand that many customers are choosing to put their suitcases in front of them on the floor in the face to face seat bays - which due to a lack of legroom renders it impossible for anyone to sit in the seats opposite.
Thats not an issue in these COVID social distancing times - but could be if passenger levels ever reach pre COVID numbers on busy services.
Few passengers putting luggage on the racks above or on the rack by the door.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Aug 2020 ==


Aren't there a pair of Stansted units needing the lathe urgently before they can enter service?

If I remember rightly, the Hertford is booked at Broxbourne at xx15/45, then xx18/48 at Rye House, with the next airport booked to pass cheshunt at around xx15/44 so theres really no need to go flat out on the airport, as otherwise you'll get checked down at Waltham Cross.
The linespeed from Tottenham Hale to Stansted is pretty much 85/80 with a bit of 70 here and there (Roydon +55 and north of Stortford). Those first airport trains in the morning (0340 etc) can make excellent time if the Signaller is on the ball and clears the crossings down the valley.
As for 100mph, both the 317 and 379 are also 100mph units, seems pretty much the standard max speed for units that aren't specifically metro spec (eg 315/710).
I heard coincidentally that the plan is to up the number of 745 on Stanex to 4 units by next week or two.

 

[Bikeman78]

On the Stansted Express a lot of it boils down to not going at linespeed constantly. Departing Tottenham on the down road there's no point in getting up to 85 to just catch up the Hertford eg along the valley, also gives the Signaller a better chance of sorting out the crossings.

I did the 0833 LST-CBG, not stop Tottenham to Audley End. It overtakes the 0828 at Broxbourne. The driver was clearly a regular on this turn. He was happy to pootle along at 60 until a couple of signals before Broxbourne and then it was full power and away.

EDIT: It appears I got my facts wrong, the 0833 overtakes the 0828 at Harlow. But the point still stands, there is no point going flat out from TOM as they would just catch up the 0828 sooner.

 

[Bald Rick]

I did the 0833 LST-CBG, not stop Tottenham to Audley End. It overtakes the 0828 at Broxbourne. The driver was clearly a regular on this turn. He was happy to pootle along at 60 until a couple of signals before Broxbourne and then it was full power and away.

Helped by the straightness of the line. It is dead straight from Brimsdown to Slipe Lane Crossing, half way between Cheshunt and Broxbourne. A driver at Brimsdwon can see the next 8/9 signals, and often the train in front too. So they know what speed to do to avoid hitting the YY.

 

[Class 170101]

I’d expect the StEx to be back to normal as soon as the trains are available. The airport is getting busier in terms of flights if not people, albeit not back to normal. But certainly as busy as it has been at other times in the past 20 years where 4tph to London were necessary.

Might go back down now that Spain, France, Portugal(?), Malta, Belgium and Holland are on the red list and it seems Greece and Italy might follow France back onto the list as well quite soon.

 

[Alfie1014]

Might go back down now that Spain, France, Portugal(?), Malta, Belgium and Holland are on the red list and it seems Greece and Italy might follow France back onto the list as well quite soon.

And EasyJet have announced that from September(1st?) that they are closing their base at Stansted and reducing the number of routes they operate there from 24 down to 4. The remaining routes will be Edinburgh, Glasgow, Belfast and Amsterdam.

 

[St. Paddy]

007 about to try out the wheel lathe at Hornsey this morning View attachment 82429

It went back via Hitchin and Cambridge. Was it dragged from Cambridge to Norwich or did it go via west anglia and GEML?

 

[Class 170101]

It went back via Hitchin and Cambridge. Was it dragged from Cambridge to Norwich or did it go via west anglia and GEML?

Via WA and GEML assuming this path is the one.

Realtime Trains - FRGT 1825 Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Norwich C.Pt. T.&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[JonathanH]

Via WA and GEML assuming this path is the one.

Realtime Trains - FRGT 1825 Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Norwich C.Pt. T.&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That path wasn't used - it appears to have left later via the same route via Cambridge and Liverpool Street

Realtime Trains - 576Y 1942 Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Norwich C.Pt. T.&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[St. Paddy]

Thanks guys

 

[JonathanH]

Another of these moves from Crown Point to Hornsey via Liverpool Street and Cambridge potentially in the offing today - 221 miles in the best part of six hours.

Realtime Trains - 579B 1110 Norwich C.Pt. T.&R.S.M.D to Hornsey E.M.U.D.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

EDIT: ...but didn't run

 

[jopsuk]

is there an issue with them going via Canonbury?

 

[Class 170101]

is there an issue with them going via Canonbury?

Diesel Haulage needed

 

[St. Paddy]

Diesel Haulage needed

Do you mean they’re not cleared with their pans raised as the wires are certainly there?

 

[Domh245]

I think they've also gone via canonbury before?

 

[Class 170101]

Do you mean they’re not cleared with their pans raised as the wires are certainly there?

Correct

 

[ijmad]

Have there been any door failures on these units yet? Do they close off an entire carriage when that happens?

 

[dk1]

Have there been any door failures on these units yet? Do they close off an entire carriage when that happens?

Been several & no you cannot realistically close a carriage off. The emergency window was to get round that restriction with only one door per side per carriage.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Been several & no you cannot realistically close a carriage off. The emergency window was to get round that restriction with only one door per side per carriage.

Yes I noticed that emergency window - only on one side iirc ?.

Had a few rides on 745s and 755s this weekend and was rather impressed. Nice open feel with seats that line up with the windows. Traction motor noise noticeable but not really intrusive in the relevant coaches. Lack of any real engine noise on the 755s makes them superior to DMUs (IETs I am thinking of).

Only concern I have is the step down from the raised seating areas over the bogies. I went right over the edge !. Bashed my hand/arm on a passing table and would have got someone in the stomach if they had been sat there. Obviously been an issue as there were announcements warning about the step. What fooled me was getting up from a seat facing away from the step and as I turned round the step was already under my nose so not spotted. I would suggest making the raised area larger by moving the step edge from its current location level with the seat backs to instead be in line with the front edge of the first seats in the lower area. That way there is more chance of someone noticing the step as they turn out of the nearest seat.

Another plus was very noticeable when I got off a 379/387. Gosh - I had to step down a whole 8 inches approx !. Yes I had very quickly got used to that level entrance/exit. Or was it a feature of the height of the platform I was alighting at (Cambridge North) ?.

But these Stadlers are definitely a nice train.

 

[dk1]

Yes I noticed that emergency window - only on one side iirc ?.

Had a few rides on 745s and 755s this weekend and was rather impressed. Nice open feel with seats that line up with the windows. Traction motor noise noticeable but not really intrusive in the relevant coaches. Lack of any real engine noise on the 755s makes them superior to DMUs (IETs I am thinking of).

Only concern I have is the step down from the raised seating areas over the bogies. I went right over the edge !. Bashed my hand/arm on a passing table and would have got someone in the stomach if they had been sat there. Obviously been an issue as there were announcements warning about the step. What fooled me was getting up from a seat facing away from the step and as I turned round the step was already under my nose so not spotted. I would suggest making the raised area larger by moving the step edge from its current location level with the seat backs to instead be in line with the front edge of the first seats in the lower area. That way there is more chance of someone noticing the step as they turn out of the nearest seat.

Another plus was very noticeable when I got off a 379/387. Gosh - I had to step down a whole 8 inches approx !. Yes I had very quickly got used to that level entrance/exit. Or was it a feature of the height of the platform I was alighting at (Cambridge North) ?.

But these Stadlers are definitely a nice train.

Cambridge platform 6 is the worst i have noticed for height differential. Another frequent observation is those getting up in the raised areas headbutting the overhead rack. This is doubly embarrassing if you then fall over the edge as you leave your seat

 

[delticdave]

Another of these moves from Crown Point to Hornsey via Liverpool Street and Cambridge potentially in the offing today - 221 miles in the best part of six hours.

Realtime Trains - 579B 1110 Norwich C.Pt. T.&R.S.M.D to Hornsey E.M.U.D.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Why such an odd route? I would have thought GE mainline to Stratford, turn right onto the North London line & turn right again at Canonbury. Continue north to Ally Pally, reverse in the turnback siding at Bounds Green

Correct

Why do they need a special clearance to operate under "normal" 25 kV catenary?

ISTR that British Railways specified the parameters for 25kV OHLE & pantographs as standards for the electrification programs.

Way back in the dim & distant I remember riding the 2 x NSE Clacton Units railtour that visited the West Coast Main line to Altrincham & Dinting, & they reached Euston via said North London Line.........

 

[superjohn]

It may just be a paperwork issue, the train may be able to run on a line just fine but that needs to be checked. There are no ‘standard’ parameters, all train types must be passed specifically for running on each line. That includes being physically within gauge and also any potential signalling interference etc. The latter may permit them to be hauled only. The electronics on modern trains are a world away from class 309 units.

Avoiding the congested North London line and Finsbury Park area may well be a consideration too.